I like how you say Wigan coach. Does the fact that he won the lot at his previous club not set the alarm bells ringing that the team at his disposal at Wigan is simply not up to the task rather than Noble suddenly becoming a poor coach?

I think there's a bit of fantasising going on here.

First of all, I can't believe you ask that question about 'what errors are these'. Do we see Noble and the team making anything but errors at present? I certainly don't. We've played well on two occasions this season so far - against Bradford, who we can now see are actually very poor, and against St Helens, who still managed to beat us.

As for the bit about Trent. You can't on one hand dismiss people's desire to replace him like for like, and then, on the other, airily state that we should have kept him. They guy was gone. He didn't want to stay; he reckoned he'd retire if we held him to his contract - and much of the reason for that, if certain players are to be believed, was Brian Noble, who Trent simply didn't rate.

As others have said, at present we're a bad side. We're not that bad on paper - we've got a number of good players. But this team is not the sum of its parts (by ANY stretch of the imagination), and the responsibility for that must stop with the coach.

You can continue to keep thinking deeply about it all but the fact is we did not replace Barrett leaving us with no real halfback in the entire squad and the props are terrible. No matter which way you dress it up that is 2 of the most important areas on the field that we are awful in. You simply cannot play the game being so poor in those areas and expect great things to happen no matter who the coach is.

Do you know of any team that has ever done well with no half decent halfback and such a poor front row?

He has been long enough at Wigan for his performance here to influence whether he is considered a good coach or not. His performance as coach at Wigan is pretty dire and would IMO have been even worse were it not for Barrett for two seasons.

Harking back to his Bradford days and saying that proves he is a good coach fly's in the face of the evidence that has been on show weekly since 2007.

You make it sound as if he was/is hamstrung to do anything about the current level of performance we are getting from the team. I can't seriously believe you think he can have so little influence on the group of players we have, several of which are current internationals.

Dave

But why have we got no decent half back and a poor front row? Il tell you why look at our signings in the last couple of years.

Phelps
Mathers
Pryce
Roberts
Gleeson
Tim Smith
Riddell
Carmont
Coley

7 backs 1 prop who played 2nd row for a relegated team and 1 hooker.

And saying hes a poor coach in his Wigan days means hes a poor coach flys in the face of the evidence that was on show when he was at Bradford.

You cant have it both ways Dave, he didnt win things at Bradford through luck,he had a very good set of forwards which is key to any team being sucsessful which he has not got at Wigan. Oh also add the that a halfback that kick the ball with regular accuracy and do more than keep running back on an angle stepping in and out.

Whilst we are on about coaches should we carry on and bring Millward into it? Another coach who failed at Wigan despite winning the lot at his previous club?

I am sorry but after the amount of coaches we have sacked over the past 10 years i can no longer keep blaming the coach as sacking them in the past didnt work so i dont see how it will work now.

Based on the fact you can no longer just go and sign the worlds best in every position the following players moved that Wigan could have bid for...

Half Backs Chris Thorman, Luke Dorn, Brett Kimmorley, Rangi Chase, Jeremy Smith - they are not wonderful i'll agree but would have more of an impact than Tim Smith has come up with so far - Tomkins has it all before him but needs lots of time and a decent pack.

Props Michael Korkidas, Gareth Carvell, Nick Fozzard, Tony Puletea, Jason Ryles, Antonio Kaufusi... IMO are all better than Coley and (the current) Fielden - also Nick Scruton, Garrett Crossman and Ray Cashmere would have been better than nobody

Don't say none were available - maybe they are not good enough in your eyes but not many won't agree they would have improved the current line up

For me, you are wrong. If only it was that simple to put team matters right...
For a start, to belive Nobby is 100% responsible for recruitment is laughable and he is not a poor coach.
Just my view of course.

You don't have to think deeply about it to recognise that we don't unload in the tackle often enough, don't play the ball quickly enough, hang back in defence, kick away possession too often and too early, don't use our dummy rummers properly, are too shallow in attack, substitute at the wrong time, don't bring our runners through from depth, go to sleep when we get ahead, drop endless numbes of passes, are apparently unfit, poorly conditioned, not motivated, etc.

None of these things are complicated. Junior sides have mastered them. Yet we almost invariably get them wrong.

We used to be the inventors of sophisticated game plans and tactics. Now we can't even do the basics right. I've avoided being so forthright about it in the past, but the time's come to speak the embarrassing truth because the future of Wigan as an RL force is more important than one man's diminishing reputation. The head-coach is not adquate for this level of football.

The Catalan fixture was a nghtmare.
Four days after playing Saints we have to go there and face that lot.
Noble knew we couldn't beat them down the middle so we went round the outside. We had the beating of them in the backs and it showed.
Walters knew they could beat us down the middle and easily. He also had to watch the outside as knows what Roberts and Gleeson are capable of between them.
Wigan went round the outside and were 4-14 up after 20 mins. The interchage killed us with Bailey also going off. They scored every try up the middle where we were weakest and their big men blew us away!
Last 10 mins, admitted when the game was over, we score two again one up the middle by Sam T and on the outside by Pat.
We need a prop immediately, whether there's one available is another matter entirely. We will need another when Coley goes next year.
We need a play maker halfback and a bulky 2nd row/prop wouldn't do any harm.
Thank God Jamal Fakir didn't play, he's the type of player Wigan need. Can play prop/2nd row, huge man and an enforcer.
We've now all the backs we need and the urgent priority has to be a prop.
I know everyone who went there was as disappointed as I was. Looking at the league, honestly say, who would have beaten Catalan in the South of France only four days after a club's main derby of the year.
I'm not sure who could have won that fixture.
We didn't come close but who would have?

Very true,people have forgot that it was a massive task for any team to win that game especially given we lost Carmont and Hock but had we managed to win most of the earlier season games nobody would be that bothered. The problem is we have not managed to win most of our other games and the Catalans game just highlighted the weakness in our squad.

Does that mean Fielden is staying

It is clear we need a prop but I also don't think that alone would fix it and have never suggested it would. That would require the coach to coach the team better. We could recruit who we liked but until we play differently there will be no improvement. That is why Noble is a poor coach and for the detail as to why see Crunchers post.

Dave

Interestingly, since the start of 1999 you've had the following coaches:

John Monie (sacked July 99)
Andy Goodway (sacked Dec. 99)
Frank Endacott (sacked May 01)
Stuart Raper (sacked July 03)
Mike Gregory (left due to illness 04)
Denis Betts (sacked 05)
Ian Millward (sacked 06)
Brian Noble

The only silverware you won in that time was the Challenge Cup in 2002 under Stuart Raper (although you won the league in 98 with Monie (I think) at the helm).

Monie was a good coach with a good track record, Endacott was an international coach, Millward had great success with both Leigh and St. Helens and Nobby had great success at Bradford. Obviously, I'm an outsider looking in, but it would suggest that there's something other than the head coach that's an influence here. It may be similar to what happened at Leeds where they seemed to spend lots of money on all sorts but never quite won anything until around 1999. And no-one seemed to be able to sort it all out.

I'd suggest that there's much more to this than meets the eye....