He does around 20 seconds in to that second video and has hold of Joels arm but Joel twice tells him to get off and on the second occasion sounds more aggressive as though he’d lose it with him if he didn’t. I know who I’d back in a fight so I can see why Sam Tomkins wouldn’t be much more forceful.

Sams actions throughout both videos are pretty controlled. He’s giving it a bit until he realises they’re being filmed but at least he was smart enough to can it at that point. It’s Joel who’s at fault in all this for me and who’s in danger of losing his job with Wigan. As much as anyone I’d say he owes Sam an apology for dragging him in to something really avoidable. Had he just thrown a couple of drunken verbals and walked then certainly Sam and probably neither would have had their names dragged through the mud like this.

Horrible viewing

I think the only way forward is to remove Joel from the club ASAP, utterly disgraceful and shameful on the club.

If this was in another other profession where Joel was a public figure he would be gone by now.

Cringed after the slap and stopped it.

Position ooks untenable now which is horrible for all concerned. I include Joel in that.

That said. The fact that he is making apologies publicly might be an indication that IL might not sack him.

Crap situation all round.

The second video comfirms my opinion that Joel is an idiot and Sam hasn't done much wrong (that has been caught on camera). Quite a few times Sam can be seen either trying to drag Joel away or at least trying to get his body in the way.

It's coming across as a little shady on the other side of the camera too; the start of the second video seems to be a little antagonistic and a little more cynical. It's mentioned in the first video about ruining careers etc so to me knew what they were doing and knew of the intention to distribute the footage. I wouldn't be surprised if her "shock" of the footage ending up online is completely fake. I was messaged by someone on another RL forum who claimed to be the grandad of one of the girls and he said she was offered £600 but said she wanted more.

I think you've got a total bellend of an RL player who has acted appallingly and someone who has been quite clever from the start and seen the opportunity. Whilst one doesn't cancel the other out (and don't get me wrong, Joel is much much much worse) but I couldn't claim the moral highground after basically negotiating a higher amount of hush money and then leaking the footage anyway.

Not admonishing anyone from any blame here, as it’s completely indefensible, but does anyone know what caused all this in the first place?

I would say that the cause was too much alcohol and a lack of responsibility and standards

Without a shadow of a doubt. Just wondered if anyone on here had heard of/knew if something was done/said to kick all this off

Joel has to go Im afraid.

Nothing to stop the club supporting him post employment but we need to send a firm message out here.

I think Sam has been extremely lucky, no doubt in my mind that he was behaving just as stupidly prior to the filming.

The second video is worse in my opinion not sure that Joel can realistically expect to carry on at the club,yjr fact that he got in there first with the paper interview and that told you it was bad,didnt expect it to be that cringeworthy, best for all concerned if he leaves surely?

Barmaid refused to serve them as they were to drunk so after arguing Joel said he would serve himself and thats why he went behind the bar.

The 'Dailies' are now running with the second video.

I think this makes JT's position untenable. The club will be left with no option.

Oh dear. I’m afraid that’s Joel out for me then.

The best thing for Joel is to get his head down and come back for 2019.
A note....we should keep a support of him. The depression that followed shame on his family and himself was too much for Terry Newton. I hope we as a community have learnt lessons.

Sobering thought....