The 2 most successful coaches of the summer era? Interesting.

Tony Smith might feel a bit hard done too there - 1 WCC, 2 SL, 1 CC, 1 Northern Ford Premiership, 1 National League Cup

Do you reckon Sunday would have changed his mind, after 4 years in the job?

I reckon a character reference handed down on stone tablets at Mount Sinai wouldn't make him change his mind.

Isn't it strange how the likes of Andy Farrell and Mike Gregory were captains of junior sides and no one ever questioned the people who selected them?

That's not a relevant line of argument.

Captaining a school side does not preclude a person from being a successful "Grade A" captain.

I don't even think it would have made the slightest bit of difference if we'd had the best motivational speaker in the world to the two most important games we lost last season, or i suspect most of the others. We managed to lose some equally important games when we still had faz giving the hairdryer treatment under the posts.

You don't think we would of beat saints away if we had Barrett in the team?

He wasn't exactly a Saints slayer in his time at Wigan was he?

The only team Barrett never totally tore apart in his time at Wigan was Saints so your probably right.

I would have loved to see Barrett and Tomkins form a halfback partnership mind. If we'd have had that last year with Leuluai at 9 we'd have gone even closer.

It's a very relevant line of argument. People were questioning the people that chose him as Captain at junior level, yet it's an often quoted statistic that the likes of Faz and Edwards captained sides at every level including junior, academy, etc. If it was irrelevant why would it ever be mentioned?

I understand that it's not an arbiter of how good they are, but as an indicator of the right pedigree it's not only relevant, but arguably the only quantifiable marker we have.

But that wasn't the point i was making, i said 'motivational speaker' i.e. captain, not having a player with the ability of trent in the squad. Basically in the big games we missed out on, I think it was execution (lost ball and kicking option) that failed us, not motivation (that a captain could influence). I don't think any amount of lambasting would stop us dropping the ball or missing tackles, or not having a kicker who can regularly hit touch at a distance, or regularly turn the defender, or have stopped feka getting knackered so fast for example.

It is completely irrelevant.


There are a number of reasons why people are appointed captain at a more junior level.

Playing ability, family "connections", attitude to training to name but three.

Sure, many who are appointed captain at this level go on to become good captains at a higher level. However, there is no guarantee.

That is why it's irrelevant.

You may as well say "Farrell and Edwards used to eat pasta, therefore everyone who eats pasta will make a good captain".

I was not there (and I won't be at any of the friendlies for various reasons) but why would you ask such a question? It's about as relevant as your "do you watch the academy" questions last season.

It was a friendly.

Dave

And when taken out of their comfort zones at Saints and Bradford, they failed. Their credibility has taken a serious dent given their time at Wigan and their judgement called into question many times on this board when they coached here.

It is not therefore unreasonable to question who they appointed as captain particularly if you consider the man they appointed wasn't doing a good enough job (which in my opinion he has not).

Of the two it was Millward who I blame the most because as I said at the time before we had any idea of how well Lockers would do at the job, it was a stupid thing to do to give the captaincy to a player returning from such a serious injury and to (then) a young player. His success at Saints was no excuse for doing that IMO and it was just one of many flawed bits of judgment he exercised in his short time as our coach.

Moving on to Nobby, he was rightly criticised for his loyalty first approach to team selection and so there was no way he was ever going to change captain. This approach was just wrong IMO and also IMO would inevitably mean Lockers would remain captain as long as Noble was coach. Now he is not we see this change occur.

What I don't get in all this debate though is why Lockesr is considered by some unimpeachable? He is a very good player, not a great one. He has his strengths and weaknesses as player but is not head and shoulders above his contemporaries in the side and doesn't stand out in any way as an obvious choice for captain IMO.

Dave