Think what I and most other people who stated what you losely claim in your post above said it is the exception rather than the rule.

The point you made was that Myler and Westerman did not need to go out on loan prior to playing SL which was floored as both played NL1 prior to moving into SL.

Owen is 19.

I'd never deny that he's got talent, but I never really thought him big enough for the back row or fast enough for stand off, and this seems to have been the conventional wisdom among those I usually watch the reserves with.

He's been better in the last few weeks than I ever thought he would, but, though I'm not a fan of Nobby and am fairly cool about IL at present (mainly over the coaching thing), if I was to slag them off on the strength of this, I'd be being clever with hindsight.

When it was first announced that he was going to Aus, there wasn't much fuss, so I'm guessing that quite a few others felt the same way.

The fact of the matter is they were playing SL for their clubs as teenagers and Flanagan and Tomkins were not. That is the most pertinent point.

I have no idea if Owen at Cas has ever played at NL1 level for Cas but he made his first team début at 17 I think and was playing in a play off game at 18 on Sunday.

Who knows where Hayne played his RL before making his début and holding down a regular place as a teenager in 1st grade but he was a regular player as a teenager.

I am sure you can go to most SL teams and find other players who are regular 1st 17 players as teenagers.

Flanagan clearly thinks he had been overlooked and who can blame him at age 21 only getting games with the first team.

Dave

According to the ever reliable Wikipedia he is 18, birthday Nov 25 so he will be 19 this year. Doesn't matter he's still a teenager who has been given the opportunity of 1st team footy sooner than we have been doing so with our young players recently.

Dave

Players like Hayne, Falou and Inglis are special cases they are freaks genetically, for some reason we are not getting these in the English game. Also note generally the younger lads that do come through early are usually outside backs.

Dave you cannot give all the young players a chance! If we had played Flanigan, who would have missed out likely Tomkins or Mossop, its part and parcell of the modern game that young players will move on, the key is keeping the ones who have the best long term prospects, in my opinion we have done that, especially if Farrell signs for future seasons.

Players will always have to wait for there chance, Flanigan is no different. most who watch the resrves and clearly the coaches too stated he had not been a top performer at that level to justify selection, in that respect he only has himself to blame.

Each player has to be handled as an individual case year on year physically SL players get bigger and stronger it is only natural that younger players will struggle to get through due to simply issue of development and the poor standard of the reserves.

Flanigan has been impressive since he arrived on the scene, but his decision was made prior to that and given players like Tunson, Tomkins and Mossop all got a shot at first team before him he clearly was not performing to the level they were in the reserves.

You will never keep everyone happy its a fact of life of the modern game, and again I have to say i think in some respect your a little dated with your views and the harsh realities of playing and running a rugby league club in the post cap era.

but do you not feel that the attitude towards the youngsters in our club is changing? A lot more have had their chances this year than usual, and I would imagine in the future we may see them being brought into the team at a younger age.

Because they have a weaker squad!!!

Ainscough is a teenager who has bewen given his chance at Wigan this year.

His opportunity never really came because he had some big players infront of him like Bailey, Hock, Hansen, Joel Tomkins and O'Loughlin. I don't think Wigan can be blamed for not leaving out guys that have in the main been very good for us for a long time.

It's a shame i suppose that things have worked out as they have but i can't really blame Wigan. The lad was 21 and still playing u21 rugby so it would have been hard for Wigan to be sure enough of him to offer him a new deal.

The area that Wigan could possibly have looked at would have been to get him on a season long loan somewhere this year so they could get a look at him in a first team like Saints have done with Scott Moore.

On a side note it's encouraging to read there that Gareth Ellis thinks the training methods down under have improved his game. That encourages me if McGuire is to take over as coach as he's meant to be a forward thinking young coach and is coming from the best club in the NRL.

There is evidently a greater priority on signing up talented lads long term more than there was under the previous management - Yes.

But the whole debate is on giving the young lads an opportunity in the first team. I mean someone can tear the reserves apart all year but you will never know how good they are until you give them a chance at super league level. Mark Flanagan is a clear example of this.

When everyone earlier in the season was debating on who should get a contract extension most did not know with Flanagan as they had never seen him play first team level. Maybe the Wigan management have done the same? However now he has had a chance it's evident that he is ready and is a bloody good player and we have missed out!

We only seem to give players a chance when there is an injury. Not when players are off form.

For example I don't think Joel Tomkins has hit top form this year. Why not shake him up a bit and give Farrell (or at the time) Flanagan a shot?

Same with Phil Bailey and Harrison Hansen.

Not to mention last season we had Liam Colbon playing in the second row!

Another example of when players could be given a chance is when we rush players back to early instead of giving a shot to one of our reserves lads. Phil Bailey suffered from it this year and Sean O'loughlin last year.

Opportunities for players are there.



Rubbish. People tell me Eamon O'carroll is too small but he was our best prop (before he got injured) Also stood up to Adrian Morley a couple of seasons ago as well.

Sam Tomkins another one. Scrawny as anything but has won a lot of praise for his defensive effort.

I have never seen any lads who have played this year struggle because of their size (or ability)

This is all true, but we'd have needed a crystal ball to make an informed judgement on this. People need to realise that Flanagan's decision to leave had more or less been announced by the time he started hitting his straps in the first team.

Nobby perhaps should have given him an opportunity earlier. But Nobby is almost certainly on his way too, so hopefully that wariness about using young players will go as well.