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Quote: apollosghost "Great news for England
More importantly it is great news for Rugby League. It might cause any of our star players to think twice about moving to the dark side in the future.

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Maybe because (whisper it) Sam has to take some of the blame?

Bath didn't kidnap him and force him to play RU; he left of his own accord. I don't know what he imagined would happen to him in RU, he appears to have thought he could walk into the RUWC team with minimal delay (which he actually did, by hook or by crook). And then, hold the front page, it wasn't a roaring success. What a surprise! icon_rolleyes.gif

Bath are playing him at his natural position. Which is fine. England played him at centre (where he had played for a bit, but was still a novice). He didn't do too much wrong as it turned out, and certainly can't be blamed for England's dismal showing. But I do wonder what SB's ideal scenario was, in his head, and how realistic that ever was.

And rest assured, he *will* be remembered as a "failed rugby league convert" by the English media.

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Best read I've come across so far.
fansonline.net/rugbyleague/article.php?id=33
Best read I've come across so far.
fansonline.net/rugbyleague/article.php?id=33


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Quote: moto748 "Maybe because (whisper it) Sam has to take some of the blame?

Bath didn't kidnap him and force him to play RU; he left of his own accord. I don't know what he imagined would happen to him in RU, he appears to have thought he could walk into the RUWC team with minimal delay (which he actually did, by hook or by crook). And then, hold the front page, it wasn't a roaring success. What a surprise!
I wonder what is in any of these lads' heads when they leave to go to Union. In most cases, I'd imagine, it's pots of money ... but Sam B was earning pots of money in League, and at the same time was idolised even by the Aussies - and that takes some doing if you're a Brit. He really was the guy who seemed to have it all.

There was an old phrase in history for when kings made big mistakes - "he was badly advised". A euphemism for "he made a total cock-up, but we have to blame someone else". In this case, I think it would be true, and the person who badly advised our wayward king will most likely have been his agent.

Agents just don’t have the same agenda as the rest of us. Their job is to head from one payday to the next, and they make no discrimination between League or Union.

However, I agree that Sam – who’s an adult, not a child – is still at least partly to blame. Next time, I just hope he turns round to his agent, who
no doubt will be promising him all the wealth and glory under the sun, and asks: “And what happens if it doesn’t turn out like that? Where will I be then?”

Hopefully, if not Sam, that lesson will also have been learned by the many others who even now are being persuaded to try out “the bigger, more global” game.

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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection." 23/08/2014:



Quote: moto748 "Maybe because (whisper it) Sam has to take some of the blame?

Bath didn't kidnap him and force him to play RU; he left of his own accord. I don't know what he imagined would happen to him in RU, he appears to have thought he could walk into the RUWC team with minimal delay (which he actually did, by hook or by crook). And then, hold the front page, it wasn't a roaring success. What a surprise!
I agree, no one held a gun to his head and made him sign on the dotted line for RU.

His ideal scenario was fine apart from one fatal flaw. He was going to play for England's RU team....not New Zealand's,

If Burgess was in NZ's squad they'd have still won the WC. If SBW was in the England's squad they'd have still exited at the group stage.

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Great to have him back and I think he can now set a realistic goal of winning a World Cup (or at least making it past the group stage).

This England side looks to be developing nicely. It's getting better all the time, our player pool looks to be increasing and he brings some much needed top level quality to our back row.

If the Kiwis and Australia can get over our pack in the next few years that is likely to contain Burgess x3, Graham, Hill, Lockers, Walmsley, Roby, Farrell, Bateman etc then they'll have done well.

We look to be building something with the potential to be pretty special at the minute.

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: NickyKiss "Great to have him back and I think he can now set a realistic goal of winning a World Cup (or at least making it past the group stage).

This England side looks to be developing nicely. It's getting better all the time, our player pool looks to be increasing and he brings some much needed top level quality to our back row.

If the Kiwis and Australia can get over our pack in the next few years that is likely to contain Burgess x3, Graham, Hill, Lockers, Walmsley, Roby, Farrell, Bateman etc then they'll have done well.

We look to be building something with the potential to be pretty special at the minute.'"

Agreed (well, apart from Lockers, I think this will be his last international series). We are in very good shape

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We have a real quality England squad now and it's going to get better.
All we need is a quality coaching staff.

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Quote: Grimmy "Agreed (well, apart from Lockers, I think this will be his last international series). We are in very good shape'"


I wouldn't have included him but he says he's planning on playing on for as long as he's being selected.

Fitness permitting he'll play in next years four nations and the World Cup going off his comments.

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Quote: moto748 "Maybe because (whisper it) Sam has to take some of the blame?

Bath didn't kidnap him and force him to play RU; he left of his own accord. I don't know what he imagined would happen to him in RU, he appears to have thought he could walk into the RUWC team with minimal delay (which he actually did, by hook or by crook). And then, hold the front page, it wasn't a roaring success. What a surprise!
He marked his opposite centre out of the game v Wales.

His own England centre partner (some ex South African whose name escapes me) was poorer than he was by some distance.

England were 10 points up when he left the pitch v Wales. He didn't enter the field until England were already well beat v Oz. He wasn't picked in the last game v Uruguay which you might have thought he would be to give him more experience given it was a dead rubber.

He was being lined up as the excuse as soon as England lost to Wales.

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Quote: DaveO "He marked his opposite centre out of the game v Wales.

His own England centre partner (some ex South African whose name escapes me) was poorer than he was by some distance.

England were 10 points up when he left the pitch v Wales. He didn't enter the field until England were already well beat v Oz. He wasn't picked in the last game v Uruguay which you might have thought he would be to give him more experience given it was a dead rubber.

He was being lined up as the excuse as soon as England lost to Wales.'"

I think if you read the press reports no one is actually blaming Burgess. They are using his inclusion to highlight Lancasters poor decision making. That is another thing entirely. Burgess is running home because he didn't get things his own way.

The whole sorry saga is a mess. I'd have more respect for him if he stayed at Bath and learned the game properly instead of quitting. He must take responsibility for his own shocking decision making. Firstly for leaving League then for quitting Union.

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Quote: Aboveusonlypie "I think if you read the press reports no one is actually blaming Burgess. They are using his inclusion to highlight Lancasters poor decision making. That is another thing entirely. Burgess is running home because he didn't get things his own way.

The whole sorry saga is a mess. I'd have more respect for him if he stayed at Bath and learned the game properly instead of quitting. He must take responsibility for his own shocking decision making. Firstly for leaving League then for quitting Union.'"

There may be lots of sympathy being shown to him now but that doesn't excuse his awful treatment by some of the media and ex players earlier. There was plenty said about him that was way off the mark, a fact highlighted by Will Greenwod at least.
Also, whilst I agree he has to stand by his decisions made, your given reason for his about turn is simply your opinion I presume? Or has he told you personally? Another way of looking at it could be that he has been big enough to realise he had made a terrible blunder in the first place and has put things right.
Anyhow, it's all done and dusted now. Or would be, if Mick Ford would just shut up for once. He seems to be in the press every day yapping on about it.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy "There may be lots of sympathy being shown to him now but that doesn't excuse his awful treatment by some of the media and ex players earlier. There was plenty said about him that was way off the mark, a fact highlighted by Will Greenwod at least.
Also, whilst I agree he has to stand by his decisions made, your given reason for his about turn is simply your opinion I presume? Or has he told you personally? Another way of looking at it could be that he has been big enough to realise he had made a terrible blunder in the first place and has put things right.
Anyhow, it's all done and dusted now. Or would be, if Mick Ford would just shut up for once. He seems to be in the press every day yapping on about it.'"


Mike Ford seems to have totally failed to grasp that Sam Burgess didn't go to Rugby Union to play for Bath.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy "There may be lots of sympathy being shown to him now but that doesn't excuse his awful treatment by some of the media and ex players earlier. There was plenty said about him that was way off the mark, a fact highlighted by Will Greenwod at least.
Also, whilst I agree he has to stand by his decisions made, your given reason for his about turn is simply your opinion I presume? Or has he told you personally? Another way of looking at it could be that he has been big enough to realise he had made a terrible blunder in the first place and has put things right.
Anyhow, it's all done and dusted now. Or would be, if Mick Ford would just shut up for once. He seems to be in the press every day yapping on about it.'"

Burgess has been quoted saying he missed his family. Now where have we heard that before? Seems like every sportsman who wants to break a contract suddenly has bouts of homesickness.

The word hubris sums this up perfectly. Having conquered Rugby League he thought he could play an easier game and do just as well. I wonder if Sam spoke to Joel Tomkins about his experience. It seems that he took advice from those he wanted to hear from, Farrell, Ford and his agent, rather than some people who might tell him to think again.

Whilst his defence was always going to be good, his attacking skills were poor for inside centre. In fact with him being fast tracked into the team at the expense of better players, no wonder there was a backlash from within Union.

He went for the money and the glory, and who could deny him that? But as for whingeing about his press treatment, well, that's a bit lame IMO. If even someone as ignorant as me could see it, I really don't see why he couldn't. I posted at the time that Sam Burgess wouldn't make a Union star in million years and I was right. If I could see it I'll bet thousands of others could too. He ain't no Sonny Bill Williams. That much is clear from watching them both in the NRL. Why on earth he thought he could master Union in less than a year and play in a World Cup shows severe delusional thinking on his part and that of his advisors.

Mike Ford as Bath coach is asked questions by the press and he responds, that's his job. Why should he shut up? Mind you, I'm betting he feels pretty let down by Burgess, and the Chairman of Bath will too, who bankrolled the whole thing. Ford's advice was to stick around and make a flank forward and IMO Burgess should have done just that. He was on pretty good money for someone who is still learning the game.

We are yet to see how this will affect his RL career as well. No-one, apart from SBW, has actually come back to RL from RU and been as good.

FWIW I wish him well. Anyone can make mistakes. He has owned up to his. I hope that he becomes part of the England team that beats Australia next year. Of course we'll have to find some half backs first (maybe Johnny Wilkinson could come out of retirement and give RL a try? - which is about as fanciful as Sam Burgess smashing it in Union)

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I would agree that Burgess never looked a good fit for Union from the get go as a back. I do think he could have made it as a flanker, but that is pure hindsight on my part. I don't for one minute think Bath signed him with a pack position in mind. Re Mick Ford and the press, he could always draw a line in the sand but instead chooses to prolong his own agony. Finally, to SB's credit he hasn't (as far as I know) complained about his treatment by either the press or pundits.

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