I'm not one for bagging refs too much but Jeez, he was bad! So much so that in the end I was actually shouting at the TV for decisions we got I was so peed off with the sound of his whistle!

If I'm honest, I thought he kept London in the game in the first half.

I'm not saying they didn't take their tries well or that we weren't at fault defensively when they scored, but I thought he gifted them yards and yards of territory they hadn't earned. And he did it time and again.

It was a wipeout in the end, but I feel sure that we'd have got to that a lot earlier with a referee who didn't feel the need to keep blowing up.

I saw him ref a game a couple of weeks ago and I thought he did well but he just looked on edge on Saturday and so eager to make decisions, be that penalties, six agains or whatever. I was sat in line with the Mago ‘try’ in the first half and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it but he seemed loathed to use the screen early on. I got told he’d called held on it but I can’t hear him say that on the replay, I can just hear the commentators saying he gave a penalty against Mago because the tackle was complete but if he doesn’t call it and Mago was moving all the time, with the ball up, how can’t he turn it down?

It's almost as bad if he called held anyway NK as that would mean he called held while the player was still moving and the ball clearly still in play.

I couldn't make the game but I was messaging a couple of mates who we normally go to the games with and they had no idea what he was blowing for half the time. Even with the assistance of commentary on TV it was unfathomable. As you say, everyone was giving different reasons for the supposed infringement. Some of the "not squares" and "incorrect play the balls" were laughable. It's a bit of a cliche but it seemed like he'd make his mind up to give a penalty in advance and then fabricate a reason to justify it. It seemed like barely a set of six completed without some intervention from the ref.

I said a few posts earlier that it's especially important to call the refs out after such a big win. It then can't be brushed away as sour grapes, or a dummy spit after a continuous loss. Instead it's highlighting, what I believe, is the biggest issue in our sport. The refs and judiciary are absolute t0ssers.

I'm already seeing our so called lack of "discipline" being used a stick to beat the club with. The Wigan Today jouro (McAllister?) included it within an article on things we need to work on. How can you work on the Mago no try? How can you work on not being square, when in fact you actually are? How can you work on not giving a pen away in the tackle when the opposition has a second player in the ruck and he's on top of you?

Every week of this season they've dropped the ball in some kind of way. People will say that it evens itself out & it probably has with the WCC. Is that right tho? Is it really something that we should just accept?

I considered just going having a beer behind the stand in the first half because I couldn't be bothered watching him anymore.

One thing I will say though, is that every ref has battered us so far, so we probably need to do better ourselves. We're right up near the top of the penalties conceded table yet we've played a game less. I think we're averaging about 10 per game and that is far too high, even if the refs are in that mode of testing out the new whistles they got for Christmas.

It at least goes against the old line that the best teams get all the calls. It's worlds away from the days of Leeds conceding a couple of penalties a game and the refs apologising to Peacock and Sinfield when handing them out.

I find it a bit suspicious that while we seem to have worked on tackling technique, trying to bring our shots down onto the body rather than up around the shoulders, we are suddenly getting pinged for lots of technicals. I'm not saying that referees are bent, but some of them just can't seem to let the game flow.

There are certain things that really need to change. The levelling up of penalty counts, etc. If a referee wants to know what the penalty count is, he should keep it himself ... and not ask for it from some stats man. Why does he even to know? If he's doing his job properly, it's irrelevant what the penalty count is.

We do need to be better, I agree. Whatever the reason, you don't want to be hanging around the top end of the table for pens conceded at any time. It's hard to be too critical though as there's been so much inconsistency in the reffing that it must be hard to earmark and correct areas when they're not a penalty one week, then are the next. Someone else has mentioned Dupree actually asking the ref for help on what he needed to do to not concede a penalty and where exactly he should stand not to be penalised. The ref didn't seem to offer any assistance which makes it doubly bad.

When you're being penalised for playing the ball correctly or standing square (the ref seemed unable to tell the difference between not square and peering round first marker so you can see the play the ball!) how are you supposed to correct that? Play the ball even more correctly? Line your head and arms with the first marker so you only create a single outline? It's absolutely barmy!

Incidentally, isn't it interesting that no one deems it worthy of note that the ref sent an obvious 'no try' up as 'try' and the video ref was unable to find sufficient evidence to overturn it. Was it because it went against us rather than for us? Or the Mago try being ruled out without it even being referred to the video ref!

It's the what I call situational pens that drive me nuts. Perfect example is a markers not square type pen. There was one Vs Hudds where our guys were both slightly over to the short side and Hudds went open. It was an obvious disadvantage to us, but he still give the pen. The situation had no impact on either, Hudds ability to attack, or the wider flow of the game. It was just a moronic, binary decisions with no feel/thinking for the game, or anyone else apart from his own box ticking exercise.

People wanting to watch a game of rugby break out? F them, we've got pens to give. People supporting their team and wanting to see fair decisions (Mago no try)? F them, it's more important the ref backs himself than making a right call.

In every sense of the word, they really are pathetic.

Whilst agreeing with some of your points and often get frustrated (certain markers not square decisions are frustrating this year as certain times players are caught not square when trying to get back to marker, where they'd be better just lying in the ruck and not being penalised), I'll be honest, some of your Rhetoric and use of language towards the officials has been for a couple of years and continues to be, pretty crap if I'm honest

Without going into detail, every coach speaks/reviews issues with the refereeing department virtually every week
A lot of the application of the rules comes.from feedback from coaches etc, but they will also continue to push/find other ways to circumvent those same rules and the application of them

I won't be getting involved in a back and forth as it's pretty clear your NEVER GOING TO BE HAPPY with anything relating to officials

But I can assure you they are right a very very very high % of the time
They apply laws and applications of the rules a very very high % of the time
And they do work with coaches/players/clubs etc and feedback is given both ways weekly.

To make certain assumptions and use language like "Moronic" is poor
Your Hudds example, players not standing square "Could" affect which way teams play and feedback has been given that teams were pushing one way at marker to encourage teams to play one way is an example
It's irrelevant which way the dummy half plays after the markers are not square, they may have played that way due to markers not being square
However this was done after consultation with coaches etc.
They are applying the law in place and application of it in consultation

Referee's and officials will always be blamed, I just think some of the language surrounding it needs to be tempered a bit.

Each to their own if you want to defend them.

Personally I can't stand them or the way they go about things. I saw an oldish video doing the rounds the other day of a Newcastle Knights skipper telling the ref he'd got it wrong and "had cost them the game". The ref saw his ar$e over it as, obviously the player isn't allowed an opinion. Thou shall not tell the truth to the ref. It might hurt his feelings.

Half the stuff I'd actually like to write about the refs wouldn't get through the filters on here. I just pray that one day we (as in the sport in the UK ) grows a backbone when it comes to them. It was refreshing to see Moore get the brunt of the Aussie media post the WCC, even tho wigan benefited from it on the night.

What would you do to improve matters in the short/medium/long term?

Without the refs we have no game,they make mistakes,players make mistakes,we all do.

Spot on