First one was a terrible bounce, second was just poor.

We gifted them that game, stupid errors followed by a penalty that then lead to a try, embarrassing performance. Saint thoroughly deserved it, they did nothing fancy, they just didn't play as dumb as we did.

I'm confused, didn't Ben "worth thirty points" Flower play tonight?

Just one of those days. Sad it had to come in a derby though. I don't think Saints made a mistake in that second half (?) and we gave them 22 points on a plate.

Cunningham said in his interview we completed at 95% in the second half so one error I'd imagine. Always hard to compete with that considering the size of our pack. Bowen had a shocker though, which I was quite surprised by considering how well he played against Leeds. Don't think he was helped by reasonably lax kick pressure though from your forwards.

Does Waney go with Bowen v Salford, Hampshire, or try someone new at full back?

One try was from a bad bounce, the other was a dreadful drop from a lousy kick from Saints. Not one of their players within 10 yards when he dropped it.

Waney's between a rock and a hard place with his full back position.

Team game and the 'team' was appalling tonight. We dominated the first 25 mins and should have been 20 points clear but we bombed chance after chance. They desperately need to wake up and produce something. The team plays in the image of its coach and things needs to change.

In all honesty going back to the fullback issue we simply must start to play a safe option at fullback. As soon as Manfredi is back I'd put him or Burgess in there.

I'm not convinced Burgess or Manfredi's passing/pass selection is good enough for them to play fullback in the style Wigan need. Your entire structure with the three or four second man plays is obviously based around getting the fullback on an edge with a gap for the fullback, centre or winger. If your fullback can't pick the right option consistently, that structure is a bit limited. I'd go with Hampshire. He's not rock solid under kicks but the more he gets used to playing at fullback the better that will get, and he's a genuine ball-playing option. He's also too talented to be sitting out most weeks.

I don't think full-back is even our most concerning position. We need Gelling back as Tomkins' defence is dreadful (ditto Charnley) and Matty Smith was absolutely anonymous again.

Only listened to the game on Wish FM, but imo Wane made some glaring team selection errors. He said a few weeks ago how he needed to manage Bowen's "old legs": Bowen should thus not have played both last Sunday against Huddersfield and then backed up tonight with only 4 days rest. Hampshire should have played one of the games. Maybe Wane felt he couldn't rest Bowen after his match winning performance against Leeds, but a smarter coach may well have made the tough (and as it turned out correct) decision.
Wigan had a big bench against Leeds ( ie 4 props/second rows and no Powell) and this worked very well. Sutton should have been on the bench tonight instead of Powell and MM should have played most of the game - as he did against Leeds.
And surely Rocky deserves to be given a chance at 6 with Williams at 7 - their rightful places. I am afraid Smith was very anonymous yet again - poor kicking out of hand and missing conversions he should be getting. He may be "experienced" but that does not seem to add much to the team performance.
Some appalling individual errors resulted in the defeat but would they have happened if the team selection had been different? Would a fresh Bowen have had a stormer like he did against Leeds rather than a shocker if he hadn't played last Sunday?

Burns kicked us to death tonight. When was the last time Smith had a game like that? As said above, we need to give Hampshire and Williams a go in the halves. As for fb, there's no safe option. I wonder how Tierney is getting on. Anyone know?

Same old problem. Wigan's pack gave up in the face of sustained and overwhelming physicality. Blaming Wigan's backs - even Bowen (who I have a certain degree of sympathy for) is silly.

If Wigan had even half the raw muscle, grit and fighting spirit that Wane's GF winning pack possessed we'd might as well wrap up the title and hand it to you.

THe odd thing is - Wane knows this truth as well as anyone. Only he can explain why he's de-emphasised the importance of a rock-solid platform on which to build pressure. I mean, anyone who knows the slightest thing about Matty Smith's playing history will recognise that he is a "big pack" scrum half. At Saints he was always at his best when we could put out our biggest pack. He thrives buzzing in and around huge, yardage making props - coaxing, cajoling and spurring them on to greater effort whilst all the time keeping a watchful eye out for the opportunity to make either long raking kicks for territory or deft little grubbers for the full-back or left-centre to chase onto.

I was not one of those people who laughed at the decision to purchase Smith because he is a good player. Not world class. But who is in this league? The point is - Smith would have fitted seamlessly into a Wigan side with the same tactical ethos and playing style that the club ALREADY possessed coming off the back of GF success.

Everyone talks about Sam Tomkins, but the real star of that season was Wigan's forward pack. It was undoubtedly one of the strongest, most physical and tigerishly competitive ever seen in SL. If ever you needed a pattern for how best to go about attacking a long and gruelling league and playoff campaign it existed - RIGHT UNDER WANE'S NOSE.

Signing Matty Smith should have taken you one more rung up the ladder. Which makes Wane's subsequent decision to completely abandon the cornerstone of everything the club achieved that season so utterly perplexing. I really am struggling to think of a coach who has so radically overhauled his coaching style.

I mean, Millward did something similar when he decided to go for a more mobile, multi-skilled pack of forwards. But it wasn't as though Saints were lacking in that department anyway. Millward merely cranked it up a notch and overbalanced the side.

Of course, it could be that Wane was always so inclined and his initial success was entirely a product of McGuire's making. But I can't imagine Wigan would be happy selecting a coach who'd prefer to sit back and leave the ghost of his predecessor to run the club for a season.

I'm completely baffled by the whole thing. Of course, it's not impossible for Wigan to rescue the situation in time for the GF. But unless something fundamental changes in that pack with players suddenly turning into supermen and Wigan's playing style shifting to one which stresses building a platform of possession and territorial dominance BEFORE slinging the ball hither and thither I'm not sure it's possible without some freak intervention of chance.

If you had watched a video, which you won't have done since you aren't a Wigan fan, on Wigan TV when Wane got the gig you would not be the least bit surprised about Wane's "subsequent decision to completely abandon the cornerstone of everything the club achieved that season" because he came out and said he was going to just that . He was convinced what went before wasn't good enough.

I was Gobsmacked. I thought appointing Madge's assistant would ensure continuity. Alas not.

Bloody hell a decent post from you I agree with a lot of what you said especially about our tatics and its my big gripe with Wane he coaches us to just throw the ball around willy nilly and constantly going lateral regardless of field position, instead of earning the right to spread the ball by going forward first. Also our discipline is shocking and as not been addressed through out the season.
We also have too many average players who are not good enough for a team looking to compete for trophies. Wane should be given to the end of the season and if we win nothing which I don't think we will, he should be replaced IMO

Classic "your pack isn't good enough" post from the Mug. Don't you even get bored of typing it all out again yourself every time we lose a match?