Big games demand big starts. We know that better than anyone, just look at our recent GF and CC win's.

Finals are the kind of games you don't want to be trailing in, let alone when it's a big deficit to try and overcome.

I don't agree with that.

It was a one off game in this overall season.
It could've happened last week. It could've happened next week.

It happen this week. Get over it.
It was about the stage.
We were just pants over an 80 minute contest.

Sam didn't miss that catch because of the stage he was on. He missed it due to the quality of the kick and it not being his day.
It wasn't our day.
That's all, for me.

Neither do I.

I missed out "don't".

As I wrote in my report. But they were off it mentally for me. Was clear as day. McIlorum's garbage pass to nothing summing it up.

^ but to just "be off it" on the day of the biggest game of the season surely means something was amiss in the preparation, or the mental attitude of the players on the day.

For sure. They got it wrong. I don't mind that if they learn from it though and I think they will. But time will tell.

Possibly. And that's the coaches job to find anti thing that was wrong in the prep.

It may though just have been 'one of those days' where nothing in particular was done wrong in prep.

That's the one thing I'm struggling to put my finger on. My best guess is that it was a combination of having 4/5 players carrying small niggles, underestimating Leeds and Leeds getting out of the traps at a much higher intensity.

Missing Tommy big time, stupid Exiles game.
I will be at the Stoop, get on with it, finish top , win that GF.

I agree that we have lost too many players, however and I know many will totally disagree with me here and there may be a lot of vitriolic abuse.

We have been in quite a number of what we may term semi finals i.e. the match before a Challenge Cup Final or a Grand Final and there have been a few where we have been expected to win e.g. Catalans and yesterday but for whatever reason we experienced very similar games and basically the game was lost very early. Similarly we have never been good enough to win in the Super League play offs until as described.

It is here that my opinion is and I know many will disagree and probably insult me but if we take over the last 7/8 years or so we have lost a large number of what I term semi finals, however the only time we have won has been with a non English coach i.e. Michael Maguire the person SW insinuates against, I will say nothing more. Maguire won 2 out of 3 and probably the last one against Saints was a game too far, I just hope we can get back together and work as a team not for the coach but for the team and fans. Every interview with SW is and this is without any disrespect but it is "I want" "I will" etc. The time is here for him to relax and use his skills to re invigorate the team not to "flog them in training" there are times when this is needed but at present we have the most talented side in the league playing OK until a few weeks ago and major injuries have been a pain but a good coach here will look after the players and help them though this but more importantly get the belief back into the side.

Wigan matter more than the players, coach etc. different skills are needed here to ensure we progress to the Grand Final and win it as we did a couple of years ago afterbein beat by Leeds in the CC. So the matter is out of the fans hands (if it was up to us we would never lose) and in the hands of the players but at this time The Coach needs to deal with a very difficult matter but shouting is not the answer. Very difficult but necessary.

Your saying Wane can't hack it ? That's an opinion.

It may be that, and in my opinion, the 'team spirit' was not there on Saturday for me.

What caused that I am not too sure. But I suspect there might be a problem.

How can we play sublime stuff most of the season and then we had that performance ?

We had too many players who weren't fully fit. It was clear from pretty much the first 5-10 minutes that Lima, McIlorum, Charnley and even Mossop and Hansen were struggling. They were too slow off the mark and with decision making in defence. Had it not been a semi final then i'm sure most wouldn't have played. Although it seems that Wane wants players to just grit their teeth and grind it out and put their bodies on the line for the club. How many times have we seen players this year playing heavily strapped when they probably should have been on the touch line, then have to miss the following game? How many times have we seen players come back too soon then get injured again in their first game back or in training then be sidelined for even longer? I remember a couple of seasons ago when Maguire went back to Aus for a few weeks, Wane had Goulding playing with a dead leg and heavy strapping. He could barely even walk.

It may have looked like some players were not 100% especially Lima, Mcllorum and Hansen and maybe they weren't but Leeds picked a big set and they ran hard at us, their big players up front Peacock,Kylie and Bailey had probably the biggest games they have this season whereas ours didn't - simples! And on the back of that Burrow ran us ragged around the pb.

I think the intensity arguement has some merit here. I'll give you Warrington (my team) as an example last season. Ok, we lost a few regular season games - this was more to do with poor performance than anything else. When it came to the two games that really mattered (CC QF & Play Off Final eliminator) we were found wanting. Most of the other games we won comfortably, totally blowing teams away on a number of occasions. A few of our own players pretty much said that the blow out scorelines hadn't helped. Could that be the same for Wigan.

A few players didn't have the best of games for you, bu you have come back from worse positions in games before though.