Hansen is performing better than Hoffman IMO.

I agree but Hoffman would defo make the bench. He's better than Faz, Tuson and Eric imo. Dint get me wrong I like those three but I think Hoffman could have been outstanding under Wane.

Do you think he was on more than Flower and Eric's wage put together?

I'd be suprised if he was on less than that. Aussie internationals don't come cheap

Hoffman who?

Haha DaveO.

To be honest i have bagged DaveO i few times in the last week regarding previous comments.

The thing is, this is just a rugby forum for fans and everyone on here has made bold claims or made statements that are easy to giggle at retrospectively.

I was a staunch supporter of Karl Pryce for example. In hindsight i was talking out of my arris because there was no way he would ever deliver what was expected of him.

Hoffman wasn't on as much as people would think. Don't forget we brought him over here for a year whilst Melbourne sorted out their salary cap problems, we were doing them a favour.

completely agree with this.

O'Carroll has never had as much influence on the first team as Lauaki has had recently. Against Leeds Lauaki had to do the job that Mossop and Prescott usually do and to his credit he did just that. Just because the team doesn't fall apart when one player is missing doesn't mean that player isn't worth anything to the team.

In his first few games he was very rough around the edges and really needed to work on his discipline, his technique running the ball and his willingness to defend but he has been constantly improving with each game.

O'Carroll was a player who always had lots of heart and never took a backward step but he was also nothing special in terms of ability. His injury record was also pretty poor and as soon as he got to Hull he picked up another injury that kept him out for a few games.

Lauaki brings a bit more aggression to the pack. Having obviously worked on his attack over the last few weeks he now fights in the tackle, trying to spin out or turning his back to allow an offload, he hits the ground quickly and gets good play the ball and he also makes some good metres too.

He's not as good as Lima, Mossop or Prescott but they are real top quality prop forwards right now. Lauaki isn't quite at that level but he's still improving and he still offers a lot to the team. I can't say I've seen much from O'Carroll to suggest he'd ever really be a good forward in a top team.

I wouldnt have O'Carroll before Lauaki at all. O'Carroll for me is a very average player who is not big enough to be a top prop. Many of our younger props can do the same, if not a better job, than O'Carroll. Lauaki has a lot more size, aggression and offers something different to the team and a presence that someone like O'Carroll doesnt.

Hoffman for me wouldnt be in our starting 13 this year and isnt the sort of impact 2nd row who you would ideally have sitting on the bench, and he isnt the sort of player that would have settled for that either. He is the workhorse Hansen type player and I would only want one of those in the 17 if I wanted a balanced pack.

Joel for me was never a centre and Goulding has been 10 times the player there than Joel was last year. Again he wouldnt have been in my starting 13 this year and at best would have been on the bench. He again wouldnt have settled for that.

Is our starting 13 and our matchday 17 better than last year? Undoubtably it is. It is all very well saying players are left are better than ones that signed but that for me isnt comparing like for like and doesnt take into account our younger players progression. It also ignores the fact that in most cases the players that left, the ones who were in our starting 13 last year, were replaced by ones already at the club who have done a better job, Goulding for Tomkins, Hock for Hoffman.

I think that we should have some perspective with this thread.

How about a "Hands up if you banged on about giving Karl Pryce time and now that he's gone haven't exactly started a campaign to get him back" thread or a "Hands up if you insisted that we absolutely MUST sign Matty Smith when he got released from Saints?" thread.

Ryan Hoffman leaving was not something that particularly bothers me really & I don't have any great desire to see him return to the UK. Not that he wasnt a good player. Quite the opposite he was a fantastic player but the cap space & quota he would take up coupled with the fact we have two players in Harrison Hansen & Gareth Hock who are up to (and in Hock's case possibly surpass) Hoffman's standards.

The player that I really do wish was back in the Cherry and White's was Joel Tomkins. A truly brilliant athlete. The best raw athlete that we've produced from our academy IMO. Joel was a fantastic player & could have developed into something special at Wigan alongside his brother Sam. The season he spent at centre perhaps has seen some fans views of how good he was become a bit misguided. Certainly Darrell Goulding is doing a tremendous job at centre and we're better off with him there than Joel but Joel was never a centre. In the back row/loose forward however he was brilliant. He had a rare combination of pace/acceleration/balance with strength/power & a brilliant fend. There was a spell when Sean O'Loughlin was out for a lengthy period of time which saw Joel replace him & he was outstanding (I think he won YPOTY in that season too).

Today I had a look back at that Wembley try that he scored - a moment that will live with me forever. That was something special. I would love for him to return to league. A back row combination of Gaz Hock/Harrison Hansen/Joel Tomkins with Sean O'Loughlin at loose forward would be something else.

Hock was the direct replacement for hoffman which has turned out great as far as i am concerned. Luaki, dudson, crosby and spencer have replaced coley and o'carroll and again that has turned out pretty well. I was a bit unsure how our new recruits and young lads would bed in to this side as there was nothing 'world class' about any of the new signings but i have got too say i am pretty happy with how all of them have performed.