what about if he had a knife or gun? What about if he had a samurai sword and cut him.

Things that didn't happen aren't much use to a real life situation. Whataboutery is the last refuge of the lost argument.

Ben Flower hit a man who was unconscious. Everything else was part and parcel of the game. Happens all the time. Sometimes halves barge in to props. Sometimes props get mad and punch halves.

nobody ever hits unconscious people because it is a dangerous, cowardly dog act of the highest order.

Regardless of the your reasons for getting angry, regardless of their merits, when your anger manifests itself in punching a fellow pro who is unconscious YOU screwed up. No justification, no mitigation.

I understand what you are saying regarding punishments should not be different dependant on it being a showpiece event.
But this thing is in danger of being made into a witch hunt of Wane and the Wigan club as well as Flower when the RFL read the article in todays Daily Express.
It has a column on the back page as well as a double page spread inside, one page deals with the match and the other really tears into Wane regarding his get out and give it to them pre match talks in which his NZ video is given as proof.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that he was unconscious? On the video it seems as though his right hand is up in apparent self defence.

Not to say it wasn't fully deserving of a red card and all, it just doesn't look as though he's unconscious to me, and he was moving about after Flower stepped over him.

the issue is the game is massively tarnished and is being made out to be a thugs sport by the southern media. As you will tell by my user name i now live down here. never heard RL being on the local radio, but it is and it has nothing to do with the result! i have tried for 4 years to change the opinion of my work friends that it isnt just big blokes smashing 7 bells out of each other by showing them clips of absolute skill and passion. however as soon as i came in this morning ive been getting "banter" for that "filthy northern sport" all because of this one incident.

and for this reason it should be a large ban, not sure about being sacked, but bearing in mind ZH got 7 games for calling someone a name you think this should be 1 game more? id also like the ban to take in to account friendlies, be utter crap if he only misses 1 competitive game due to wigan playing 4-5 friendlies

Really???

Look at the pictures man

Years ago I witnessed Alan Hunte elbow Martin Offiah from behind, off the ball deliberately - the popular side cheered (the video is on you tube) - Sonny Nickle was another with form for targeting players. I also witnessed Kelvin Skerret spark people out off the ball on numerous occasions. Paul Cullen was another. Back then people just got on with it and there was none of this witch hunting that goes on.

Flowers punch was a red card and will be dealt with by the RFL. To the credit of L.H he's accepted the apology and holds no grudges. IMO that should be the end of it.

Apparently the police, according to the BBC, are looking into the situation.

"Greater Manchester Police are looking into the punches thrown by Wigan's Wales prop Ben Flower in Saturday's Grand Final defeat by St Helens.
Flower was sent off after two minutes for knocking Lance Hohaia over before landing a second punch while the Saints man was on the ground.
Flower, 26, has since apologised.
The police added they had received no public complaint but they will continue to liaise with the relevant parties before deciding on a course of action.
They include the Rugby Football League, the Criminal Prosecution Service and St Helens.*

Only one friendly is allowed to be counted in in the ban.

You as a Leeds supporter should know that as DannY McGuire has used it in the past.

As for the Flower incident, read todays League Weekly Grand Final supplement (page 11) by Stuart Cummings. It makes very interesting reading.

Is it available online? ta

Are you a wigan fan?

Regards

King James

What difference does that make?

I'm guessing they are Union fans? No doubt you can find several eye gauging incidents to counteract that.

That is the problem though I agree. As usual we get press now that something unsavoury has happened.

Personally I think the ban will be time specific as opposed to number of matches.

Here's my two penny worth:

1. LH tries to impede BF when he's chasing the kick (happens most weeks and sometimes penalised)
2. BF swings an arm and makes contact, probably with his bicep, enough to knock LH off balance (happens most weeks and is seldom penalised)
3. LH chases BF who is then involved with the play as he attempts to collect the ball. As LH gets there though, BF is no longer involved in the play but LH has fired himself up and jumps up with both arms into BF - Not sure it is leading with elbow but more like pushing with forearms. (happens and would normally result in a penalty to BF's team and likely put on report).
4. BF swings punch as LH is standing in front of him, facing him (happens and would usually result in red or penalty to LH team and on report. Not sure a yellow can be given for that foul play)
5. BF stands over barely conscious LH, holds his shirt collar and punches him in the face (not sure what punishment as not seen that before).

I'd imagine that if Flower hadn't have delivered the second punch, he would still have been sent off for the first one but that is open to debate. As the second one is so bad, it makes the first one look acceptable...the rough and tumble of the game. And for those who say you can't expect to make contact with someone and not expect something in return, then surely this can go someway to LH's reason for jumping up at Flower following on from the contact while turning to chase the kick?

Notwithstanding our personal opinions from watching the same thing, it was bad for all parties concerned and portrays our sport in a poor light. I do, however, wish Flower good luck over the next few months and hope he has the chance to get back on with what is a better than average career.

Can you summarise it for those outside the LW circulation area?

I think they'll do that purely because it will look like a more severe punishment.

Without working out the specifics, an 8 month ban will be the same as a 10-12 game ban.