FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Tomkins exit confirmed |
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| its a shame we haven't had a nauseating sky sports propaganda campaign giving him adverts and presenting jobs in order to keep him at wigan like they did last time
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| I think that Sam owes Wigan another contract, at a reduced salary, based on the last two seasons. He has taken a lot of money from the club and hasn't really provided anywhere near that value on the field.
I respect anyone's decision to go after the most money possible, but think that Sam's own integrity should have seen him pay back to the club that made him famous and stood by him when he was providing little to no value in the contract he was taking home week on week.
Good luck Sam, I hope that the extra couple hundred thousand in the bank will be worth it when all of your best mates are challenging for trophies and you're playing away to Batley in the middle 8s.
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| Quote: Cruncher "Maybe this will be one of the many changes promised, or something like it.
The only teams who should be in Super League are the teams who can afford to be there and afford to compete.
Catalan tick many boxes for me. They have a good ground and a big home crowd.
A couple over here in the UK are less impressive.'"
It would be controversial, but I'd exempt teams from relegation on the basis that:
- They are full time
- They run a reserves team which completes at least 15 games
- Average attendance is greater than 10k (heartlands) or greater than 6k (non heartlands)
- They have a decent ground
That way, we are still offering a route into SL for teams who perform well on the pitch but struggle in other areas (e.g Cas, Wakey), but we are protecting teams who aren't as good on the field, but are contributing in other areas (e.g Catalans, Toronto - if both ran reserve teams). It would encourage teams like Hull KR and Widnes to try and improve crowds and run reserve sides, rather than just be the 11th best team in the league.
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| Be interesting to know what effect it had on his decision making that Cats broke the rules and approached him early. If he thought there was no way Wigan were going to match that and made his mind up before any deal form Wigan was put to him perhaps the club could learn a lesson here and not leave it late before engaging with players in the last year of their contract. I know in theory the rules mean it ought not to matter but clearly a player with a deal on the table is going to seriously consider it in the absence of one from his own club.
Then again he may genuinely want to sample the lifestyle in the South of France and if he does no one can blame him. We benefited when Pat Richards left a GF winning side in the NRL to come here because he wanted to sample a new lifestyle.
That said the fact Wigan decided to be cheapskates an not take up the extra year on his contract for no other reason than money (that didn't count on the salary cap...) was an open invitation to look elsewhere. As was the fact the four year deal on offer was a pay [icut[/i.
Doesn't matter if it would still have kept him as a marquee player and the fact it was an offer that would still have given him a contract that was one of the three best in the last ten years. The fact this has even been mentioned comes across as a rather snide remark and excuse making by the club for offering him a pay cut. That we must have paid a couple of players a huge contract in the past 10 years and more than offered to Sam now (otherwise the club would have said it was [ithe[/i best contract offered) is totally irrelevant given the different rules on pay at the time and standard of players available.
Remember Sam cost the club £75K on the salary cap so had zero effect on its ability to retain other players. The club has not been forced to offer reduced wages and/or not pay him his current salary for 2019, it has [ichosen [/inot to. The key question is therefore if it doesn't want to pay Sam this much is it going to want to pay any player that level of wage and if not what standard of player does it expect to sign? It may be able to mitigate this loss somewhat by signing Hardaker but it can't rely on other clubs top players getting sacked so it can sign them on the cheap.
Bottom line - can Wigan still afford to sign the best?
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| Quote: Fantastic Mr Catpiss "its a shame we haven't had a nauseating sky sports propaganda campaign giving him adverts and presenting jobs in order to keep him at wigan like they did last time'"
Yes, it would have been much more preferable if one of the British game's few genuine stars had NOT been allowed to advertise it on telly.
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| Quote: DaveO "Be interesting to know what effect it had on his decision making that Cats broke the rules and approached him early. If he thought there was no way Wigan were going to match that and made his mind up before any deal form Wigan was put to him perhaps the club could learn a lesson here and not leave it late before engaging with players in the last year of their contract. I know in theory the rules mean it ought not to matter but clearly a player with a deal on the table is going to seriously consider it in the absence of one from his own club.
Then again he may genuinely want to sample the lifestyle in the South of France and if he does no one can blame him. We benefited when Pat Richards left a GF winning side in the NRL to come here because he wanted to sample a new lifestyle.
That said the fact Wigan decided to be cheapskates an not take up the extra year on his contract for no other reason than money (that didn't count on the salary cap...) was an open invitation to look elsewhere. As was the fact the four year deal on offer was a pay [icut[/i.
Doesn't matter if it would still have kept him as a marquee player and the fact it was an offer that would still have given him a contract that was one of the three best in the last ten years. The fact this has even been mentioned comes across as a rather snide remark and excuse making by the club for offering him a pay cut. That we must have paid a couple of players a huge contract in the past 10 years and more than offered to Sam now (otherwise the club would have said it was [ithe[/i best contract offered) is totally irrelevant given the different rules on pay at the time and standard of players available.
Remember Sam cost the club £75K on the salary cap so had zero effect on its ability to retain other players. The club has not been forced to offer reduced wages and/or not pay him his current salary for 2019, it has [ichosen [/inot to. The key question is therefore if it doesn't want to pay Sam this much is it going to want to pay any player that level of wage and if not what standard of player does it expect to sign? It may be able to mitigate this loss somewhat by signing Hardaker but it can't rely on other clubs top players getting sacked so it can sign them on the cheap.
Bottom line - can Wigan still afford to sign the best?'"
I get the impression it's more that they didn't want to take Tomkins up for his fourth year when his head has already been turned. They didn't want to keep an unhappy player on the books.
Can Wigan still afford to sign the best? Absolutely not. No Super League club can these days.
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| Quote: DaveO "Be interesting to know what effect it had on his decision making that Cats broke the rules and approached him early. If he thought there was no way Wigan were going to match that and made his mind up before any deal form Wigan was put to him perhaps the club could learn a lesson here and not leave it late before engaging with players in the last year of their contract. I know in theory the rules mean it ought not to matter but clearly a player with a deal on the table is going to seriously consider it in the absence of one from his own club.
Then again he may genuinely wants to sample the lifestyle in the South of France and if he does no one can blame him. We benefited when Pat Richards left a GF winning side in the NRL to come here because he wanted to sample a new lifestyle.
That said the fact Wigan decided to be cheapskates an not take up the extra year on his contract for no other reason than money (that didn't count on the salary cap...) was an open invitation to look elsewhere. As was the fact the four year deal on offer was a pay [icut[/i.
Doesn't matter if it would still have kept him as a marquee player and the fact it was an offer that would still have given him a contract that was one of the three best in the last ten years and the fact this has even been mentioned comes across as a rather snide remark and excuse making by the club for offering him a pay cut. The fact we must have paid a couple of players a huge contract in the past 10 years and more than offered to Sam now (otherwise the club would have said it was [ithe[/i best contract offered) is totally irrelevant given the different rules on pay at the time and standard of players available.
Remember Sam cost the club £75K on the salary cap so had zero effect on its ability to retain other players. The club has not been forced to offer reduced wages and/or not pay him his current salary for 2019, it has [ichosen [/inot to. The key question is therefore if it doesn't want to pay Sam this much is it going to want to pay any player that level of wage and if not what standard of player does it expect to sign? It may be able to mitigate this loss somewhat by signing Hardaker but it can't rely on other clubs top players getting sacked so it can sign them on the cheap.
Bottom line - can Wigan still afford to sign the best?'"
Wigan is run as a business and Mr Lenegan has said this over and over again. At the end of the day, if Wigan cannot remain solvent while paying Sam's wages, they are entitled to not do so. Mr Lenegan has stated that he does not wish not pump his own money into the club, and Sam's wages would have contributed massively to that.
On that of that, Sam has not played his best rugby the last two seasons, and has been out injured for a considerable amount of time. It is the clubs prerogative to pay players what they deem to be a fair price. Sam has not earned the price tag he thinks he is currently worth. Wigan offered him a substantial sum to stay on, albeit not at the rate he was on previously, and Sam has walked away from this.
I am happy that the club will only pay players what they feel they are worth. This is in stark contrast to previous regimes who had players on big contracts and not performing. David Vaeliki anyone?
I wish Sam all the best, but can't help thinking he's making a mistake. Not only is he going to a lesser club for more money - there is a real chance he alienates a majority of the club's fans, which could affect his future if he wants to return under any capacity.
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| So are you saying, Dave, that a player in the last years of his career should earn the same or more than at his peak? That would strike me as a very strange way to do business.
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| Pleased it's finally out and official.
I'm ok with it all, Sam is his own man, he can do as he pleases, got the opportunity to earn big bucks and experience a new lifestyle with his young family, if this is what he wants I wish him all the best.
For Wigan; made an effort to keep him at the club, I feel another 4 year deal is more that generous. When Sam burst onto the scene, and even more so when converted to FB, I thought he had the potential to be one of the best players to ever wear the shirt. However, after sustaining such an injury over in NZ he lost a lot of his electric pace, and no longer is a threat like he once was. He's adapted his game nicely, but for me, he never lived up to what could have been.
I'm happy to move on knowing his replacement is Hardaker, his game management and passing isn't as good as Sam's, but his defence is far superior, as is his running. Zac like Sam once could, can score a try from anywhere on the pitch, a real game breaker. We're replacing one former MOS for another.
Hopefully now we can secure Bateman.
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| Quote: P-J "
Can Wigan still afford to sign the best? Absolutely not. No Super League club can these days.'"
I didn't think I needed to qualify that to mean the best available to SL. Which Tomkins is one of. If Wigan want to replace him with a player equally as good or better it's not going to cost them any less. Whether such a player this the "best" as in Billy Slater kind of "best" is not what I meant.
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| Quote: DaveO "I didn't think I needed to qualify that to mean the best available to SL. Which Tomkins is one of. If Wigan want to replace him with a player equally as good or better it's not going to cost them any less. Whether such a player this the "best" as in Billy Slater kind of "best" is not what I meant.'"
Is Sam 'the Best' though? Hasn't been in contention for MoS since he's been back. Hasn't been picked for England. Hasn't made the dream team. Under what measure is he 'The Best'?
He has the best potential, maybe.
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Pleased it's finally out and official.
I'm ok with it all, Sam is his own man, he can do as he pleases, got the opportunity to earn big bucks and experience a new lifestyle with his young family, if this is what he wants I wish him all the best.
For Wigan; made an effort to keep him at the club, I feel another 4 year deal is more that generous. When Sam burst onto the scene, and even more so when converted to FB, I thought he had the potential to be one of the best players to ever wear the shirt. However, after sustaining such an injury over in NZ he lost a lot of his electric pace, and no longer is a threat like he once was. He's adapted his game nicely, but for me, he never lived up to what could have been.
I'm happy to move on knowing his replacement is Hardaker, his game management and passing isn't as good as Sam's, but his defence is far superior, as is his running. Zac like Sam once could, can score a try from anywhere on the pitch, a real game breaker. We're replacing one former MOS for another.
Hopefully now we can secure Bateman.'"
Agree with all of this. Good luck to Sam, hopefully we will follow up with an annnouncement of Hardaker signing as well as Bateman and Gildart.
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| He’ll certainly be missed. Our style of play totally revolves around him chiming into the line. There are very few Stand off/fullbacks of that quality in SL at the moment and I don’t think Hardaker is the answer, unless we change the way we play.
There’s very little loyalty in sport from clubs and players. It’s a business and it’s every man for himself to a large degree.
Good luck to him. We had his most exciting years in his first stint at the club. I’ve been watching us since ‘85 and he’d probably be fullback in my Wigan dream team.
On the plus side, we can join in with Saints, Leeds and Warrington fans in booing him now.... BOOOOOOOOOOO
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| Quote: Pemps "He’ll certainly be missed. Our style of play totally revolves around him chiming into the line. There are very few Stand off/fullbacks of that quality in SL at the moment and I don’t think Hardaker is the answer, unless we change the way we play.
There’s very little loyalty in sport from clubs and players. It’s a business and it’s every man for himself to a large degree.
Good luck to him. We had his most exciting years in his first stint at the club. I’ve been watching us since ‘85 and he’d probably be fullback in my Wigan dream team.
On the plus side, we can join in with Saints, Leeds and Warrington fans in booing him now.... BOOOOOOOOOOO'"
In his first spell his attacking play from FB is the best I've seen in FB at Wigan. But his defence is a far cry from that of Rads. I feel sometimes attacking fair seems to blind people of defensive play. Saving a try can just be as important as scoring one.
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| Quote: Jeff the God of Biscuits "Wigan is run as a business and Mr Lenegan has said this over and over again. At the end of the day, if Wigan cannot remain solvent while paying Sam's wages, they are entitled to not do so. Mr Lenegan has stated that he does not wish not pump his own money into the club, and Sam's wages would have contributed massively to that.
On that of that, Sam has not played his best rugby the last two seasons, and has been out injured for a considerable amount of time. It is the clubs prerogative to pay players what they deem to be a fair price. Sam has not earned the price tag he thinks he is currently worth. Wigan offered him a substantial sum to stay on, albeit not at the rate he was on previously, and Sam has walked away from this.'"
If Wigan can't remain solvent and pay the going rate for the Sam Tomkins standard of player when other teams can, the long term result of this is an inevitable slide down to mid table mediocrity. So while running it as a business might seem a fine idea on the surface and might prevent IL having to dip into his own pocket if that business is not generating enough revenue to meet the necessary costs of signing and retaining the best players it can (within the context of SL) the business model is not working. So IL either needs to run it better or he needs to co-opt some other wealthy directors onto the board who are prepared to help fund it and/or can bring some expertise to help improve the finances.
As to Sam's rugby he came back injured and the club still chose to pay him the wage they did. That wasn't his fault so why that has any bearing on any deal I have no idea. He then got injured again and he gets blamed for doing that out on the town which even if he did also has absolutely no bearing on how he is playing now and what that means he is worth to a SL club. It's as if people want to punish him for that despite his obvious quality on the pitch now. He can command the salary he commands. If Wigan don't want to pay it then as I said the question is can Wigan afford to pay the going rate for top SL talent?
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