Brent Webb-esque

Agreed. I'm not sure we can 'afford' to keep him given that he's quota. But the guy is improving all the time, and doing good things for us in the no. 1 shirt - which few have in recent years.

A difficult decision for the chairman. No doubt whichever way he jumps on this, certain people will attempt to rip him a new butthole.

No idea if he could turn into a top quality full back but he is out of contract at the end of the season and as I have said elsewhere he is a quota player and a none federation trained player.

If these constraints were not there, then sign him up as a utility player on little cash but they are. I can not see how re-signing him squares with IL going to OZ looking for a prop and a half back because if he re-signs Phelps I am pretty sure that means he can only sign one overseas player for 2010 and that could also only happen if Carmont left as well.

There are more constraints on the side than the salary cap.

Dave

Given the choice of Carmont or Bailey leaving, I would actually choose Carmont.

I see your point but personally I think that we haven't got anybody lined up to come in and if we do find an overseas player to come in then Phil Bailey would leave freeing up the quota space and salary cap space (but that shouldn't be an issue if Bailey, Hock and Smith leave)

Phelps is only 24 and there are only a handful of FB’s in SL who are better than him (Greenshields, Webb, Briscoe and Wellens). He’s got the potential to be as good as those above mentioned players and seeing that he’s probably on half their wages it’s a win win situation for Wigan.

We talk about IL signing top class players well imo Phelps will be a top class SL full back in a very short space of time but we won’t be paying the top, top wages for him.

All we have to ask ourselves is who else is better, available and at his price? Not many

I don't think so.

Here is a post by Ian Lenagan on the subject.

Here's an explanation direct from Ian Lenegan:

IFL wrote: Quota and Federation-Trained Rules

Since there is a great deal of confusion on this topic on Wigan forums, it might be useful to know the correct facts plus how the recent changes affect Wigan.

The "Quota" rules have been around for some years now and are based upon a player's Passport only. EU and Kolpak Passport holders (eg: Samoa, Tonga...) are exempt from the Quota rules. The maximum number of Quota players at clubs is 5 and remains 5 for the known future.

Players such as Pat Richards, Tommy Leuluai, Feka and Harrison Hansen have never counted towards the Quota of 5 because of their European or Kolpak Passports.

Wigan’s 5 Quota players for 2009 are Phil Bailey, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Tim Smith and Mark Riddell. Four of those players are currently off-Contract at the end of 2009 potentially freeing up Quota slots from then on for recruitment. George Carmont plays for Samoa and is in the final stages of obtaining a Samoan Passport. This will remove him from the Quota allowing, as a consequence, 1 further Quota player for Wigan for 2009 and onwards.

The Quota system alone was deemed insufficient in practice to genuinely reduce the number of ex-NRL players who by 2007 made up 45%+ of Super League players (hence restricting progress of homegrown juniors) because of the wide availability of Kolpak/European Passports in the NRL.

With a similar problem of high proportions of “overseas” players in certain European Leagues, the European Football authority UEFA devised and had ratified as legal in the EU, a constraint system based not upon Nationality (which would be discrimination) but upon a method of “Federation-Trained” categorisation of players. UEFA has not had the Football Clubs’/National Associations’ support to go for player number restrictions and hence this method has not been tried in practice or challenged via the Courts.

Since the Super League Clubs voted with a very large majority in 2006/7 for further restrictions for the good of the homegrown game, the RFL developed the Super League Federation-Trained scheme which was announced in 2007 to apply from 2008. This set of Regulations applies to the Top-25 players at the Club unlike Quota which applies across the whole playing staff.

This Federation Trained scheme involves a parallel system of categorization of players working in addition to and alongside the existing Quota system. It also includes positive discrimination by specifying increasing requirement numbers in each Club’s 25 man squad for Federation-Trained players. As a direct consequence of this required increase in Federation players, there is a corresponding reduction in Non-Federation Trained players as follows:

2008 10
2009 8
2010 6
2011 5

In 2008 Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 Quota players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps) and 7 out of the 10 allowed Non Federation Players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Feka, Pat Richards).

Tommy Leuluai is exempt from Quota with a Samoan Passport and classed as being exempt from being Non-Federation Trained because of his 2 full years at Harlequins whilst 20 and 21. Harrison Hansen is exempt from Quota because of his English Passport and is Federation Trained at Wigan from 18 to 21.

For 2009, prior to the recent changes, Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 quota slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR) and 7 out of the 8 allowed Non-Federation slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR, PR, FP). If George gets his Samoan Passport, we could sign another Australian/New Zealander who would take up both a Quota slot and a Non-Federation slot taking us to 5/5 and 8/8. If instead we signed another Kolpak player, we would go to 4/5 and 8/8 and would not be able to take another Quota player because he would then take us to 5/5 and 9/8.

The two systems work well together to achieve the Super League Clubs’ objectives.

Unfortunately, a number of Clubs in the last few months of 2008 used the “we do not have enough overseas slots available” reason for not renewing certain players’ Contracts and at least one legal case was threatened based upon constraint of a player’s ability to earn a living.

To avoid the delays of an expensive potential legal challenge and to be scrupulously fair to players, it was decided recently by the ESL/RFL -with the unanimous votes of the 12 Super League clubs - to extend Federation Trained status to any players who had committed their future to Super League before the new Regulations were implemented. Since 50% of such current players are 30+ and unlikely to play many further years in Super League, the majority of these exemptions will work their way out quickly.

George Carmont, Pat Richards and Feka Paleaasina therefore become Federation Trained immediately and Phil Bailey at the end of 2009 taking us to 5/5 and 4/8 for 2009. Unlike most other clubs, Wigan has 3 out of 4 re-categorised Non-Federation players of a young age.

In practice, it means that Wigan can only sign more Kolpak players for 2009 since Quota is full, unless George gets a Samoan Passport.

These recent amendments mean a slight slowdown – perhaps two years – in the full effect of the new Regulations but, against the backdrop of a current shortage of experienced Super League players with the advent of two additional teams, some people think that might not be a bad thing for maintaining playing standards.

Wigan would have preferred not to grant the new re-categorisations because we had fully planned for them better than many other clubs. However, we voted for them for fairness to players and as the only sure way to ensure that the new Regulations would be implemented, albeit slightly slower.

We also believe that the requirement for Club-Trained numbers in the 25 player squad (within the category of Federation-Trained) to rise as follows:

2008 5
2009 6
2010 7
2011 8

will encourage development and utilization of more homegrown players and mitigate against widespread recruitment of additional Kolpak players anyway.

As far as Wigan is concerned, we continue fully with our youth-focused policy for the medium-term growth in quality of the squad, together with judicious use of a limited number of quality overseas players.

Ian Lenagan

Read Kris Rads book over the past few days and he stated that fullback is a position that takes a while to get used to and you use alot of trial and error to finally get to where you want to be.

That admission from a man like rads gives me great hope for Phelps because he's a baby in the position. His very first game there was for the Bulldogs in his last game before he came here and then he started to play it on a regular basis only over the past few months here at Wigan.

He's improving in the position week after week and i believe he has the ability to become a real stand out player in the position.

He has all the basics to enabale him to play the position and then the skills to help him thrive.

Well deserved IMO... he is only young and is improving all the time, is on a average wage.. therefore allowing us to bolster our team in the areas we need to most..

With the salary cap we cannot have world class players across the whole squad. Good decision by IL and BN getting this lad signed up for another year.

All we need now is for Brian Noble to be signed on a long term deal and silverwear beckons.

i can hold my hand up from day one i thought the lad was a good player never once called him as some on this site has.

He is the best player in his position at the club, to retain him, therefore is a sensible decision.

To the "he isnt good enough" argument DaveO put up - neither is sean ainscough, but you wet yourself every week about the fact he isnt playing.

Not yet.. but a brilliant prospect..


Hows the swine flu AJ?

Brilliant news for next year. Long term I want and think we will get Briscoe.

Looking purely at the player; good signing.

Looking at the retention of Phelps in the context of the squad and the implications it has for our quota list; not sure.

Of the wingers and FBs we have, too many will be earning decent wages (I'd imagine) and too many require a quota spot.

That said, Phelps has really proved himself this year, and offers reliable cover in a number of positions so I certainly don't begrudge Phelps his contract.

Does this mean Bailey is on his way out?