I know Hastings is meant to be leaving at the end of the year. But I can’t see him getting in any NRL sides anytime soon.

On a day like today your kicking game is vital. Gale kicked us to death and Tommy also kicked us to death. TL's kicking game was awful the first time he was here and he's only got worse. What Lam is thinking about having Tommy kicking who knows but it was a massive tactical mistake. He should have surprised us all and played Smith from the start.
Remember McGuire starting McIlorum in the 2010 GF, that worked out quite well.

After being completely outplayed today by an Agar coached team IL & KR should start looking for new head coach from 2021. Whether he goes British with someone like Watson or NRL I don't know but he has to start looking now.

Next season will come around before too long and fans need enthusing to turn up. With Lam in charge we'll end up as unenthusiastic like never before. We are now back to the semi final team we were when IL bought the club with Noble in charge. He needs a coach that will take us to finals on a regular basis not knowing before the season starts we won't get beyond the semi final stage.

We have a very good squad and a youth system better than any. We need a coach who can get players to improve game by game and season by season.

What is obvious is that if we are to reach finals then we have to improve massively and changes need to be made to achieve that.

I think every Wigan fan is stumped as to how Tommy can still be the man kicking us around the park. I’d have no less confidence in our kicking game if we handed it to Willie Isa. Tommy used all his kicking ability in one performance ten years ago at Old Trafford and he should’ve retired it on that night.

The time is here to put Harry Smith in next week and let him play the season out. Harry Smith was brought on today though and still didn’t get much kicking responsibility given to him. Unless we’re going to ask him to be the main man in that regard, we may as well bang an extra forward on the bench.

The question that I keep asking myself is “is it time for Tommy and Lockers to retire?”

Both best days are behind them and both were dire today. I know they can and still do a job for us on the field but if/when Lam goes its our chance as a club to restart and refresh on and off the field. Alongside Winder, Peet and Lam going; Tommy and Lockers could, and probably should, follow.

Lockers has been finished for a while in my view. Giving one outstanding performance a season is not good enough for a Wigan captain. Tommy does more week in week out, but is a shadow of what he was. I also think it's time for us to cut some of the journeymen. I know it's easier to say than do, but I fear we have too many players in our first team squad who haven't proved to be good enough. Even those not playing regularly have still got to be paid.

Totally agree with the Leeds were excellent part Brian but when the stat came up on the screen at half time that Wigan had 0% ball posession in the Leeds half you have to question the Wigan commitment and desire to compete . I never never thought I would think that of a Wigan side . I dont think I have ever seen a stat like that before .

Regards EW

I’ve got to be honest and hold my hands up on Lockers/Leuluai etc and say I was wrong in stating they should carry on or at least we should see if we can afford to let them carry on if they wish to do so. The time has come to move on, certainly in the case of Lockers. He isn’t superman and he cannot perform miracles of being out for months and then coming in to a huge game and playing like he’s never been away anymore. It was pretty sad to see how he played yesterday and if he is thinking of playing on, he needs saving from himself. We can’t keep having him as a comfort blanket to fall back on. He will still be around the squad in a coaching capacity anyway.

As for Tommy, I’d be slightly more open to keeping him on but this bulls*it of him being seen as the organiser of the team needs to end. If there are options out there to replace his utility value of playing between 7 and 9 then take it. We have a young 7 in Harry Smith who I’d put trust in and then look for somebody to play alongside him and somebody for the bench. If nothing was doing and they kept Tommy on as an out and out back up player, mainly playing at hooker off the bench then fair enough but his days at 7 other than in an absolute emergency should be over.

O'Loughlin was rubbish today. There was no pack to be seen. Farrell ? Well I've never been a fan of Farrell . Just because he has played lots of games, does not make him a 'legend'.

You can understand why TL and SO'L still get so much game time, beyond those 2, there's a real lack of leadership in that squad, especially in the forwards, and that's amplified when you have a young squad. Hastings is probably the closest player you have to a genuine leader, but I'm not convinced by his temperament.
Obviously, the hope is someone like Smithies to grow into that role, but that will take time, and other than SoL, I don't know whose going to mentor him.

Farrell didn't do a lot yesterday but he is our best forward.

Not if he is asked to run straight up the middle. It is a bit like using a Chanel scarf to wipe your ar$e.

correct! Farrell definitely isn't the problem.

Hopefully bateman will give us some leadership next season especially in the forwards

I can seldom remember such a consensus!

It seems we pretty much all agree, Lockers is finished, Tommy to interchange hooker, give the reins to Smith. But we need another good half to support him.

Marshall*, Bibby, Manfredi*, Smith, Singleton**, Powell, Bullock, Bateman, Farrell, Havard, Byrne, Partington, Greenwood, Smithies and Joe Shorrocks

That's 15 senior players who want to be here and we want them here too, many of which play the same position so we can't use them all on the same day. The others are either leaving (French, Hankinson, Gildart, Burgess, Hastings, Leuluai, Jake Shorrocks, Flower and O'Loughlin) or only here because we can't get rid of them yet (Hardaker, Clubb, G.Burgess, Isa, Clark and maybe Wells). On that basis, is it any wonder we were out-enthused when we faced challenging conditions? We need to overhaul the squad over the next few years whilst somehow keeping a positive culture rather than turning into a group of individuals as opposed to a team.

*Depending on injury concerns
**No idea how he will play, just a hope.