You clearly just like to moan, even when people are putting the facts to you.

No i do not like to moan.

No one has put any fact to me to say that MM and Sean Wane are proven first team coaches.

Yes they seem like they can take the next step but so have many other coaches in the past and ended up being big disappointments.

I fail to see how that is moaning.

What i want to see is this big improvement that the Noble bashers said we would see with a new coach. My argument and the other ones who supported Noble was that the actual team is not quite good enough rather than the coach being poor.

I think its very fair to expect MM and Wane to at least equal Nobles acheivements of getting to both semi finals next year. I am not asking for them to win anything but anything less than what Noble did not only last year but also in his first season with us has got to be a seen as failure IMO.

Please ignore the fact MM coached the NRL winning team for large periods in lieu of the head coach. Of course he's totally unproven...

It is difficult to assess or set targets ie we must be in 2 semi's etc, the thing i feel is to judge on the performances throughout the year. If we can perform to the levels I think the squad is capable of more consistently then we should see a semi appearance at the very least, i would hope for at least 1 semi appearance by the way.

I think next year will hopefully show the marked improvement over what was in my opinion clearly an ill prepared and at times coached team, it has to be about performance though over results.

I look forward to seeing the effect he has on the team and certain players in it.

Not necessarily aiming this comment at you but it does seem some posters are carrying there pro Noble argument and holding it against the new bloke who has yet to set a foot in Wigan.

I agree jon, if you don't agree with the fact that Noble has left then so be it, but that's no excuse to hold it against McGuire, we all want the same thing here and that's success for Wigan.

I just love how some people on Internet forums keep saying he's a big unknown, big risk etc etc when the best coach in the NRL and his boss for the past 5 years says he's more than ready.

I'll take my chances with who i'll listen to tbh.

Very good post Jonh.

Although i dont think anybody has anything against MM and Wane. I certainly dont and hope that they get us to the GF next year!

My axe is to grind with IL. I think he treated Noble harshly and stopped him short of something good in the near future. Maybe im right,maybe im wrong we will see.

As i say,if we dont at least make both semis then ill be disappointed as weve been in them consistantly for the last 3 years. What does excite me is seeing if there is indeed any change in the way we play under MM. I know you have been very critical of Noble over the years so will be interesting to see if your right. Personally i dont see it unless theres at least 2 very good players added to the exsisting team but we will see.

Thats up to you and you would hope that Bellamy is right but as it stands MM like it or not has never coached a first grade team other than a few games a year. At Wigan he wont have the same calibre of player nor Craig Bellamy.

It will be interesting to see how he goes.

So you actually mean untried, not unknown.

And I quote....Is it really so hard to understand such a simple thing?

Just a tip for you here. Know what you're talking about before you start belittling other people.

Untried/unknown you knew what i meant so dont come with the belittling argument as you are the one wo started the belittling. Read your first reply to me when you accused me of being a latics fan and being more at home on their forum! Now that is belittling to the highest degree!!

As far as having full control of their own team they are 'unknown'.

And Brian Noble was 'unknown' by your own definition when he took over from Matthew Elliot.

The whole debate is extremely tiresome.

The most valid and truest point made in the whole thread.

It really has become like a dog with a bone, keep gnawing at it over and over again even though it became clear there was no meat left on it days ago.

It's amazing how one poster can keep putting forward the same tired argument, based on nothing more substantial than his own opinion, which by his own admission is at least partly fuelled by a seemingly irrational dislike of the club chairman ... and yet keep so many sensible posters busy.

At the end of the day, even if Mike Maguire's contract ends and he hasn't won anything, all it will mean is that one poster on a little known internet forum will feel that he's been vindicated. It won't mean that he has been vindicated (because Brian Noble didn't win anything either); it won't mean that Brian Noble will be recalled (because Brian Noble didn't win anything either); it won't mean that Ian Lenagan will resign (because Brian Noble didn't win anything and IL had no option but to try and replace him with someone who might). It'll mean squat. Zilch. Zero.

That's in the event that MM doesn't win anything. If he does win something of course, RHL will do yet another disappearing act. So it's a pointless exericse all rouind.

Best to pull out of this now. We've surely got bigger fish to fry than debate with someone whose only solution to Wigan never getting past a semi-final was simply to keep hoping that someday they would.