Thanks for the debate just realised the time -goodnight all

Because you think he cheats?

Mate, do you actually know the rules? It was a straight red. Wtf are you arguing about? Just because you know him doesn't mean he isn't subject to the same rules as every other player!

Don't you just love posts like thisI am a reasonable man (honest). I am completely neutral (honest). I have no particular beef with your club (honest). I am as fair and affable as the next guy on the terraces (honest). I certainly don't condone the foul on your player (honest). But I just can't help myself - I have to sneak it in somewhere that your cheating scum player got exactly what he deserved. Why? Erm ... well ... erm ... I'm sure I can think of a few reasons sooner or later. But everyone knows he deserved it. I repeat that I don't personally condone it (honest), but I have to tell you that those who do condone it are completely understandable in their reaction. Why? Erm ... well ... erm ... I'm sure I can think of a few reasons sooner or later. Oh hang on, he's a cheat! That's it, yes. He's a cheat and he deserves ... no he donsn't deserve it, but it's understandable if he gets clobbered from time to time. That's not my opinion by the way (honest), but it's understandable that others have this opinion. I repeat I am a completely reasonable man and I'm only here to tell you what the rest of the world thinks about your team and your players. These aren't my views by the way, but it's understandable that others hold them [/i

You can't beat the advice of a reasonable man.

Sam was knocked out cold, I cant believe people on this thread from other clubs are caling him a "cheat" just watch his eyes as he goes down, the challenge was absoulutely disgusting and he deserved a red and a lengthy ban, it was a clenched fist straight in the face as he was going down, not only was it disgusting it was cowardly.

Oh come off it. My post was to someone else entirely and I was having a pop at them for holding beating a Championship 1 side in such high regard. You jumped in with your constant willie waving. The only time I've responded in kind was an attempt to show you how pointless and silly it is since practically any SL side can make the claims you were making. And now I've pointed that out you reckon the only one that matters is Wigan v Wire, despite having gone on and on AND ON about us scraping a win against Bradford. Your constant dick measuring on our board and attempting to belittle yesterday's victory speaks volumes, it really does.

Nobody cares, 56 years and counting, small club - small club mentality.

It was a clenched first to try and knock the ball out - same as most players are seeminly trained to do. And a last desperate act to try and prevent the try. It went awry, and we saw what happened. Not entirely unexpected that if you miss the arm or the ball and the playing is going down for the try, you might instead connect with the head. That will likely mean it is judged as "reckless" not "careless", and some referees give red for that. And, if applied consistently, few could argue IMO. And SOS. Bulls have learned to our cost this year that some referees though do NOT give red, even when it appears to be a clear smack in the face from behind as the player is in the act of scoring or seems a deliberate unprovoked assault right at the start of the match.

If you or others allege it was deliberate, I suggest you are knocking on the door of defamation. Reckless? as it ended up, probably. Deliberate? No chance. Only a complete idiot would try and do that deliberately, in front of the cameras and with no other players to hide behind.

And yes, anyone calling Tomkins a cheat has to be either stupid or so partisan as to not warrant listening to? The world and his dog could see he was knocked out - thankfully only briefly. Some of his past antics do not necessarily reflect well on him, but on this occasion he most certainly was not crying wolf.

But sorry, please do not let me interfere with the proceedings of the kangaroo court.

Come on now, you know full well there are plenty on here who want a reasoned discussion. Just because some decide to drag it down to petty bickering shouldn't detract from that.

I agree with your points above, and reckless is an apt discussion as I don't believe there was any malice in it.

That said, Ganson is one of a small number of referees who would have produced the red there. God only knows what the game could have descended into if Alibert was in charge.

COuldnt have happened to a nicer chap.

Shame the punch didnt do more damage, just like the little himself tries to do when he leads with his knees in the tackle.

I hope open season on Tomkins has been declared.

I know...but it is so annoying when you read these sort of comments around the forums - same as that pathetic comment about "open season" above.

And yes, had Halibut been in charge God knows how the game would have ended up. Ganson and the specsavers adverts on the touchlines missed a load of forward passes (on both sides), but overall he did a pretty good job of controlling the match whilst still letting it flow. You didn't notice him most of the time (forward passes excepted... )

You really are a pathetic human being arent you, wishing injury on a young talent, the BEST young talent in the game in this country. And were does this "travelling gypsy" cr@p come from?? Why exactly is it you hate Sam so much...........il tell you why, because he's a class act and the rest of the league are frightened to death of him. Anyway, id ban you off the boards if it was up to me for the amount of pathetic, embarrasing posts your putting on.

Reckless or deliberate I think the term "complete idiot" applies perfectly to Raynor in this instance. You can't excuse reckless tackles like that on the basis it was a last ditch effort that went wrong. RL players need to make sensible judgements as to when they can try and do things like knock the ball out and when they can't because they risk serious injury to other players. They do it all the time because if they didn't anything would go so Raynor needs a lengthy ban to teach him a lesson.

If you don't feed the troll it goes elsewhere for food.