I think we need to be a bit more realistic about our chances next season.

To get any improvement we are relying on the new coaching set up to extract an improvement out of what is basically the same squad and to do that in just one short off season.

For us to be dark horses means to me that they would be able to get enough improvement to put us in with a chance of GF success. I think that is a tall order given other sides have not stood still and puts a lot of expectation on the coaches given they have got what they have got to work with.

Some sides still have on paper better packs than we do and even if the coaches can get the side fitter and mentally tougher ultimately that can't make up for any lack of quality.

If we take the cherry tinted specs off never mind going for the usual scapegoats such as Riddell and Feka, is TL a good enough no. 7 or Phelps a quality no. 1 for example? In how many positions can we say we have one of the best players in the league?

We certainly have the potential to improve and should not be getting beaten by the Crusaders and should be able to put away any injury hit sides we may face (instead of actually losing!) but being cautious I think that is all we should expect improvement-wise from the squad. To win the games we should win instead of failing to turn up expecting an easy ride.

If we get it then all things being equal to last season that could still get us a top four place but as we know all things won't be equal and I would at least expect Tony Smith at Wire to get their poor league form sorted out.

So for me we will actually do very well to get into the top four but if we miss out on that but see the kind of improvements I expect than that is a step in the right direction.

Dave

Many saints and leeds fans I spoke to on the train on the way home from the GF thought that Wigan are the biggest challenge to them. I agree.

i think all this season will bring us is a more consistent league campaign with mayber a top 4 finish. i still think we'll lose in the semi of the playoffs. You never know with the CC. Wire did it last year but the draw was very favourable to us all with some big teams going out in the early rounds. 2011 will be the benchmark year for us when wane and MM can start bringing the players they want when we have cap space available, ie bailey and fielden.

I'm hoping for an improvement on last seasons finish - 6th.

Leeds and Saints will still be very strong. Bradford have recruited well but their backs are awful, Sam Burgess will be a big miss & they have a new halfback combination - as do Warrington (although they have also recruited well). I think Les Catalans will go well next year and Hull FC will make the play offs. Hull KR and Huddersfield do not look as strong (On paper) as the previous year.

Looking forward to the season.

Why not?

I think KR's team just doesn't look quite as good (and tbh I think even last year they performed better than expected even by their own management, it will be tough to replicate that), and I feel Hudds benefited from a few teams struggling with their tackling style - this season I expect people will be a bit better adjusted to it so they'll have to come up with something different. I also think Scott Moore was important for them (ok he kinda bottled it later, but was a big part of their success) and they'll miss him this year.

I would settle for a top 4 place but hoping for slighty higher though,

Might be in a minority, but I think on paper Wigan have improved less than Saints and Leeds.

Having said that, the coach will have a MASSIVE say as the current Wigan squad has clearly underachieved.

Without doubt in signings terms but unlike Saints and Leeds I think theres an awful lot of improvment in quite a few of our senior players already here. We have at least 4 or 5 players that can simply do better and the hope has to be that the new coach can get that improvment and that it will be enough to close the gap between us and Saints and Leeds.

I'd say one thing we have over Leeds but not as much Saints is that we have alot of younger players who've got abit of experience with improvment in them. Leeds are a fairly experienced and settled side whereas we have alot of players like the Tomkins brothers, Prescott, McIlorum, Mossop etc who will continue to improve with the more experience they gain.

I'm pretty glad we've kept a settled squad for a change.

I think its a couple of seasons too soon as wigan still dont have a strong enough first 17. The pack isnt really that strong, certainly no where near the packs of Leeds, Saints and Warrington. The backs are so so. Richards is the only strong back and perhaps Gleeson if he pulls his finger out. In defense the backs are like speedbumps.

That said, you have an awesome coach who will be able to bring in the players he wants once he get Fielden and Fekas wage off the books and in Sam Tomkins you have a gamebreaker..IF..he can can kick on and stop the "step back inside" on Every play

Were they drunk ?

In all seriousness I think we have been the biggest threat outside of Saints and Leeds the last few years although our league table position didn't illustrate this last year I still felt we were better than the rest. It's a case of if we can go the next level.

What I do find intriguing from reading this thread is that although some people feel this squad is capable of going to the next level (something I still disagree with) and a new coach was required to reach this, most on this thread seem to be predicting for us to remain at the same level with only a slight increase in league position

People's attitude now seems to be let's wait till 2011 when MM can bring in the players he wants. What makes people think MM will be able to get the players he wants?

Hopefully IL will give MM his backing in the transfer market and he won't have to settle for second preferences. MM and Wane are a very promising combination but they are going to need the full backing of the chairman to be successful. If they identify a player they want we need to do our best to get that player.

Im not sure i agree with warrington being up there, Sure Warringtons starting pack is good but when Morley and Carvell go off intensity drops a lot, Also i think the defense in our backs isnt the issue, its more putting pressure on ourselves with dropped ball and silly penalties which usually causes tries to start rolling in

Not sure about this season, but next season we should be pushing for trophies as MM will have a huge chunk of salary cap to play with and more expirenced heads we should get top 4 as a minimum though

I don't understand that reasoning. Saints have signed a second row / centre who is a great defensive player who does little in attack, and a 33 year old prop forward who they were glad to see the back of a year ago.

They have also brought in another hooker (why 3)? who struggled at the back end of the season with Huddersfield.

They have released two seasoned (old) professionals, one (Long) who has led them round the pitch for years, and another (Gilmour) who had pace.

Saints look very vulnerable in the backs pace wise.

We'll be top 6.

Were building under a new coaching team it wont happen over night.