I agree Dave, but it has had me pondering just how much influence that the RFL throws into squad selection.

A few years ago, Phil Clarke left the role of GB Team manager and gave an open and honest account of the reasons why, which if I remember correctly were largely ( not entirely) to do with the RFL trying to manipulate and meddle in every decision from squad selection to which airline they use, hotels, kit etc etc !

Personal views on squad selections mean that everyone will have their own Aussie beating formula, but I bet none of them include sending your best players home before it all kicks off.

I feel for Gaz Hock, as he has worked hard to get his chance and at his age this will probably be his last chance too and whilst none of us like losing, it is a small price to pay to have a little discipline in your life to reach the pinnacle of your sport. I too think that he has been the victim of his reputation, but it has been well earned and probably deserved.

But I still think that unless we have a coach with backbone enough to pick the in-form players, rather than the big names first, 'lets fit em in' attitude, we won't win anyway, so its of little consequence.

I knew if I stuck to my guns on this thread finally someone would speak up with some good sense.

I couldn't agree more with you. The Aussies play to win - we seem to be more interested in playing by the rules. and according to the majority of posts on this thread we seem to be happy that way. The idea that the Aussies would drop James Graham is risible.

Another example. England play Australia in CARDIFF!!! The atmosphere at the game was zero. I was sat behind the posts surrounded by people who had never seen a game in their lives, including two women who spent the whole of the second game discussing which of the Italians they would like to shag!! Why not play the game in Leeds at Elland Rd? The team would have been given some loud support, instead of the game being played in near silence, punctuated by the squeals of schoolchildren. and if there was 45,000 there I'll eat my hat. There were whole areas of the ground with absolutely no tickets sold whatsoever.

Another reason why I wont part with my money - they have no idea how to market a quality product. I remember being sat at wembley v aussies in 1997, the turn out was embarassing and we got diddled by a ref. Yet a few years earlier that game attracted full capacity and we almost won. The game went backwards 1994 - 1996, which coincidenlty was the commencement of super league. This sport deserves better. Todays BBC radio has been dominated by the yawnion friendly. If England lose this match today they are out of the competition, it is a must win game and it gets less publicilty than a friendly? Its disgusting..... rant over

I do have a fading memory of there being more too it than just the fact it spilled into the crowd but even so I reckon the Aussies would have moved heaven and earth to get those two on the plane, not kick them out of the squad. Sure they would be punished in some way but not to the detriment of the national team!



I don't see what any of what went on at Wigan has got to do with it. If Hock's past influenced McNamara's decision he should never have selected him in the first place. For me it's a simple disciplinary and man management issue and one that has exposed McNamara as a bit inadequate. I have read the thread and those who were glad to see the back of Hock for whatever reason have understandably sided with McNamara but if people just stood back from that a minute and looked at what Hock (and the other players) actually did and consider how they would feel if it was Micky Mac being kicked out like this had he been the guilty party I think we would have a very different thread.

I am not condoning what he did and I have long argued drink has no place when the players are involved in any competition (and have often been told I was wrong on that score by the way). Missing the warm down session was pretty stupid as well but in my opinion McNamara shot himself in the foot by going as far as he did. Was he incapable of thinking of suitable sanctions for all the players involved that didn't mean he was leaving several of his best players out of the side and sending one home? Obviously so. I don't think the Aussies would have done this either.

While idiotic behaviour may be par for the course for Hock it's McNamara's job to manage it once he decided to select him for the squad. He may think he has laid the law down and stamped his authority on the squad but for me he's just shown himself up as a bit one dimensional without the brains to work out a way to achieve this without having to take such extreme action. If he feels the players would not respect his authority without him doing this and going as far as he did he doesn't have it anyway in my opinion.

This time it should have been "YOU'RE"

Dave
I'm not going to sit here and dissect words but nowhere did I say what went on at wigan had anything to do with what went on last week.
I didn't say that what happened at Wigan had any influence over what McNamara did last week.

Your inferring that it seems to be the people who were glad to see the back of Hock for whatever reason as you put it are condemning him here.
We'll I'll reverse it, the same people who told us what a negative effect kicking out Hock at Wigan and that Wane wasn't up to the job in not so many words are the same people sticking up for him here and criticising McNamara.

I'll say it again, "if" what I've been told is anywhere near the truth I'd have done exactly the same as McNamara, and I'm coming from the I don't rate McNamara camp so it's got nothing to do with being biased.

I'm a big Gaz Hock fan and didn't want what happened at Wigan to happen but it did. I stand by what I said back then, he brought that on himself and it was his actions that created the situation. Once that had gone too far for the management they decided to get rid and I saw Very few negatives from that decision and long term I believe we will benefit from it.

I'm not the same as Rogues in at I would have had him in the squad however I'm now beginning to think I would have been wrong.
This scenario was brought on again by himself, no-one else's actions made what he did acceptable. And as I have said if I did what he did from what I've been told I'd have been sacked as well.
McNamara needed Hock to toe the line for 6 weeks, Hock couldn't do it.

I probably didn't word it very well but I was basically trying to say I didn't see any relevance in what you said in your last paragraph that I quoted about the rumours when he left Wigan or posters saying he was innocent back then to the Hock situation with England.



I am not inferring that at all. I said I find it understandable why those who were glad to see the back of him at Wigan would agree with McNamara. What I am suggesting is had McNamara done the same thing to a different player they [imight[/i have taken a different view. That is all.



I don't think you can construct an argument to support his dismissal from the England squad based on rumours if at the same time you want to dismiss others opinions based on rumours about what went on when he left Wigan. That is double standards . I also don't think anyone is suggesting others actions made what he did acceptable.

My opinion is that based on what I know which is he and several other players went drinking and he missed a warm down session and got the boot as a result. Based on that my views on McNamaras handling of it remain as I posted previously. If Hock had been playing up before this then McNamara should have nipped it in the bud. And as I also said, I don't think the Aussies would have kicked him out either.

But presumably you don't condone players getting leathered a few days before a big game?

You certainly never used to.

Has something changed, or is this a hangover from the 'Hock is innocent' campaign we were all subjected to after IL and SW showed him the door?

(I don't remember you participating much in that, if I'm honest, but I do seem to recall you warming to the Gareth camp the more it looked as though SW wasn't going to win us anything).

Anyway the main question stands. Is it okay to go on the razzle a few days before a very NB Test match? Or is it only okay if you're a really, really good player?

I agree with the bit about McNamara handling it better.
Hock had to go, McNamara was right there beyond doubt. As far as the rest of them go I'd have fined them or told them they were playing but for no match fee as it had been confiscated.
It was a very big mistake by McNamara to exclude them from the squad.

What also disturbes me is that McNamara is having to deal with all this media onslaught on his own. Where's the RFL Media Manager John Ledger?
Why is there no "Team Manager" on the table with him at press conferences?
McNamara is the coach, not some media savvy suit who is clever with words and a brilliantly quick thinker.

After all this shambles I'd like to make a nomination for "Team Manager" to take charge of the squad and support the coach with the media.
My nomination is therefore Barrie McDermott.
He would be in charge of squad discipline and any player who thought about disregarding the rules could answer to Baz, no one else but our Barrie!
Also he would attend all press conferences and I'm sure that any self opinionated journo who was told his question would not be answered so don't repeat it, would most certainly not repeat the question.

McNamara is a hopeless coach but I do think the RFL have hung him out to dry!

I'm sure you will remember that it was "our Barrie" that was the very first person in the UK to be CS sprayed by the Police in Oldham some years back, when he and another player got arrested for being drunk and fighting in Oldham town centre?

I've been asking this question for a while, anyone would think the England set up is a one man band. You only ever here from McBanana.
Do they have a Media manager to deflect some of the flack aimed at the teams internal problems.
Also I saw a photo of some of the England set up being introduced to the Queen just before the World Cup, it included Barry Jon Mather who it described as England team manager. If BJM has that position why do we not hear anything from him.
McBanana is terrible infront of the cameras and should have been given some support from the RFL in these press interviews.
Surely any news should have been agreed before going into a press conference, in doing this it would have avoided any unnecessary speculation.
You have to plant blame right at the top with Nigel Wood and his cronies.

Agreed, I'm no fan of banana, but he certainly looks isolated.

It could just be that, like many men who are out of their depth in a challenging role, he is insisting on running things autocratically.

But I agree, there is almost certainly some responsibility lying with the RFL ... if for no other reason than their appointment of McNamara in the first place.

In the same way, I blame McNamara more for his original selection of Hock than for the disciplinary action he took. Hock is a nothing but trouble, and regardless of the good form he once showed, should have been nowhere near the England camp.

"hear, hear!"

(It is an abbreviation for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"icon_wink.gif