I'm not just blaming Singo, but he is our most experienced forward, both in terms of age and experience. In these big games, you look towards him and he fails to deliver time and time again. Byrne struggled for meters, but he's 6th choice and is improving. Like I said, Shorrocks was poor and we instantly saw an improvements when Smithies came on.

You normally post a lot of sense so I’m surprised with this one. You can’t mention Thornley and KPP being out and not mention Percival and Makinson. There’s no better kick returner in the comp than Makinson in terms of getting us on the front foot and Percival is decent at that too.

Walmsley is the best prop in SL and our pack still dominated overall yesterday.

I’m not so sure Thornley gets in your first choice 13? However as I’ve said before if we have a full team out even with Dodd out I’m pretty confident we’ll beat you.

But it was a penalty? He doesn't try to get one that isn't (like he does 2nd half) it is literally a penalty.

You've miss understood my post. FTV, was imo going OTT when he talked about our lack of go forward - KPP or Thornley, Ellis plus Partington, Shorrocks and Singo being duds hampered us. There's reasons behind it and to ignore them, whilst also gloating is frankly the boring BS that's ruined this week.

Like I said, I didn't wanna get into the BS of who was missing as it's swings and roundabouts. As another point, FTV mentioned we were more clinical and, undoubtedly, that's because of the guys you had missing. Likewise, your poor goal kicking - it's folly to talk about it.

I think on balance of play Saints deserved it.

I thought it was a fantastic game that had it all and ultimately we gave Saints too many chances and they took them. They are a quality side and still the benchmark for SL clubs.

Having said that I do think the advances we have made in the last year on them are huge and show no signs of slowing down.

I’m confident next year we will overtake them and whilst they are favourites for the title this year it’s not too much of a stretch for us to be finishing this year off as champions.

Lots to look forward to both this year and next.

So now as it stands-
3 games
lost 2 -1 quite easily ,1 very very close- 4points
Won 1- very very close-on our way to Challenge cup Win.
Great results compared to last year.

I agree,no reason to think we cannot do the double now,next year should be even more interesting with Cooper etc.

You’re presuming that we won’t get better though. How do you know we won’t sign someone to replace Grace? Dodd will be back, Welsby a year older etc. No planned departures other than Grace. Lomax will be fully recovered too.

Before Dodd got injured we were unbelievable, both in attack and defence.

Re my accused hyperbole on gaining ground: just looked at the stats - looks like saints had only two players across the 17 with less that 7m average gain (Norman and Wingfield, both 6m).

For Wigan, 10 of the 17 players had under 7m average gain. In the forwards there was Byrne (5), Smithies (6), Mago (6), Powell (3), Singleton (3). Plus Cust, Isa, Field, Bibby, Smith.

The narrative is usually that saints pack is ordinary without Walmsley but they were excellent yesterday and needed to be.

Wigan did very well to come as close as they did - defence was absolutely brilliant and they have genuine strike players who can create points off the back foot.

Field did absolutely nothing but get clattered but then nearly won the game for you with a moment of magic.

How is it missing the point? You keep saying talking about missing players is BS but then say saints pack is on top because you’re missing Thornley (seriously?!?), Ellis and KPP. It’s common knowledge that makinson and Percival are a massive part of our go forward that Walmsley then benefits from. None of them were there but the pack was still comfortably on top, but the reason was the players you had out?

Odd.

I thought Field was excellent. A constant threat, had Saints back peddling when he had the ball, 2 unbelievable assists and a good hand in the Bateman try.

If ever there was a game to dispel the Saints fans ‘he’s just quick’ line, that was it but we still get the ‘he did nothing’ line’. Standard stuff.

Standard stuff again.

Bateman

39 tackles
154 metres
1 try
Top metre making forward on the field from either side

Batchelor absolutely outstanding as well. Man of the match for me.