Bearing in mind Saints won the league for the 2 years prior to the introduction of the cap, that just shows how poorly run your club was and how much money you were throwing at players without success.



We were cr[ia[/ip LONG before the SC was introduced.

Yes, but going back to that era, Wigan had a team full of the better players that were around, who are going to look good playing against part-time players and part-time coaches.
Other clubs are now more into the swing of things, better coaching methods, full time staff, a more professional approach which over all evens the field.

Taking this to a logical conclusion then.
The NHS has a scanner that can cure a certain illness, but because a health authority down south can afford one and Wigan can`t, tough $hit on Wigan. Same applies.

I see a lot of skill in superleague but I think Wigan are the worst coached team I have seen this season and that includes Barrow.
We had a short spell where we started throwing the ball about (even giving an interception try at Wakefield) but he last 2 matches we have reverted to type.
All Wigan spectators are feeling a bit down at the moment...hence this thread.
However, I think the 10 metres should be reduced to 7 0r 8 so it wouldn't pay to do 5 drives and a kick. Why did we go from 5 to 10? Just because it's a round number. Ridiculous!

The NRL had a flat salary cap before the SL did. The RFL had a 50% limit until they copied the NRL in some aspects of the SC but not others.
Trouble is even with their SC the NRL have left us for dead. Our Super League Club Chairmen have brought in rules which have crippled the production of younger players.
There's the Scholorship Restrictions.
Service Area Restrctions.
For ten years we has the insane 20/20, 20/20/25, 20/20 rules. They changed it every couple of years and have abandoned it, for now!
Then there's the salary cap itself.
All restrictions on player production.
Funny how the NRL have younger players coming through in their 100s and we are struggling for real quality players. Look what their U18s did to our lads last year.
The NRL SC rules are far less restrctive than ours so they can develop players. Our Super League Club Chairmen just like restrctions for the sake of them and also so they don't have to invest any money in the game, with only one or two exceptions to that!
As one former SL CEO said "The tail wags the dog in SL."

You couldn't make this thread up.

I've just read this thread from start to finish. Unbelievable.

Wigan fans can't have a discussion about the game in general on this board without fans of other clubs posting the usual irrelevant nonsense about Wigan's mismanagement of the cap, underperformance etc etc. As if we weren't aware of the club's failings!

Yet again these people reveal their own "my club first" thinking by suggesting that Wigan fans wouldn't be questioning things if Wigan were still a dominant force.

The reality is that the Wigan club and the vast majority of its fans (me included) agreed to the introduction of the SC because WE THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE GAME AS A WHOLE. I was wrong about this, as were many others, though the intentions of many of the people behind the SC were not as honorable, sadly, as they claimed. Particularly with regard to the players whose salaries in the case of many young players are now a pittance compared with athletes of comparable standard in other sports.

The % based soft cap SC became the hard cap SC, the 20/25 etc rule was brought in, overseas players flooded the game, the RL failed even to raise the hard cap in line with inflation, the international game declines further and further and there are now very few (are there any?) GB international players who can compete with their Australian counterparts.

Its ridiculous therefore for these people to now say that criticisms of the SC are based on Wigan's desire to be the dominant team again. What we actually want is for the system to work to improve the game as a whole, rather than undermining it. As usual though the muppet chorus clogs up a thread on the Wigan board with the usual paranoid rants about Wigan wanting to take over the world. Absolutely pathetic.

Getting back to the original post, we now have a league of total mediocrity. This current Jekyll and Hyde Wigan side has shown it can compete with the likes of Saints and Hull KR this season, that's the ridiculous thing. (I genuinely think that if we had a better coach the current Wigan team would probably be in the top 4.) What a damning indictment of the state of RL in this country. We have a dumbed down league with no stars, just mediocrities hyped up by Sky and the parochial, short sighted RL media establishment.

Fans of Saints should acknowledge that their current side isn't a patch on the one from 2-3 years ago, rather than coming on this board spouting the same old diatribes about Wigan's recent mismanagement or the far off days of the late 80s and early 90s. They and others blinded by their obsessive hatred of Wigan should acknowledge that the Bradford team from 2005 would destroy any team in this current competition. Again, they might admit that the Saints, Wigan and Bradford teams from the turn of the millenium were much stronger than Saints and Leeds today.

But they won't. Their hatred and fear of Wigan means that they would rather see the sport stagnate domestically and wither internationally.

Welcome to the world of the Sooper Dooper League.

We probably have weakened a little, with Scully and others retiring. But we are working through a transitional period with older players being phased out in favour of youngsters. This may result in short term weakening for long term strengthening.

Worth noting that the pre salary cap Saints of 1999/2000 would have got whipped by the salary capped 2006 team. The salary cap doesn't lower standards, assembling a rubbish team does - like Wigan have. Who are these players who will become better if paid more?



The Bradford team from 2005 finished 3rd and would certainly not "destroy" the 2009 competition.



The 2000 Saints team contained players like Paul Atcheson, Chris Smith, Julian O'Neill, Bryan Henare, Tony Stewart, Tim Jonkers, Scott Barrow, Steve Hall, Mark Edmonson, John Stankevitch - Hardly world beaters and I would certainly back this Saints team to turn them over.



We won 3 SL titles in 5 years immediately prior to the SC introduction - on those stats you could argue it has hindered us as much as anyone.

The international level stagnation started long before the SC and the 2000 world cup was just as shambolic as the recent one, if not more so given the pounding we got in the semi final with a disgraceful team. At least in this world cup we were edged out in the semi's by the eventual winners.

Fact is - whinging about standards was the last thread you would have seen on here after Murrayfield, it was all smiles about how Wigan would kick on and might win the cup. Lose to Wire, and RL is shiit - hence the laughter.

Deano G what have you been drinking!!!!

The reality is that the Wigan club and the vast majority of its fans (me included) agreed to the introduction of the SC because WE THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE GAME AS A WHOLE

What do you mean agreed to- Unless you are Maurice L you had no involvement in it or any changes thereafter.

You go on about [inot honorable people[/i-there have been no bigger breakers of the SC cap than your club since its introduction.

Wigan are feared in RL circles like Leeds are in football. Your dominance has run its course now its a level field

Silly example. Taking your hypothetical situation and applying the salary cap to it results in the South not being able to buy the scanner because Wigan can't afford it. Rugby equivalents being Wigan not being able to keep Owen Farrell (and the saviours of British RL Brown, Robinson, Aspinwall and Wild), and Wire(?) not being able to keep George Ford because Salford can't afford them.

The salary cap is an instrument that could possibly, if applied correctly benefit the game. However it is being applied by some of the most incompetent administrators of any organisation in the world. The salary cap in the hands of the RL is akin to letting a monkey loose with an AK47, resulting in Super League being shot to pieces by mediocrity.

What? This is the first time since super league started that you can watch a game and not know what the outcome is going to be and your moaning? Maybe we should go back to 60-0 thrashings where 1 team looks great against a team nowhere near there standard? Or maybe the top 5 teams playing in a little league of there own like the last 10 years of Super League has been?

For me going to a game knowing you've got a chance is miles better than going to a game knowing your going to get hammered or going to win easily and look good against e, its so boring and off putting.

What?

Would you prefer to watch a close but boring match than an entertaining one though? SL on the whole is poor quality nowadays, bar a couple of teams.

Have not read all this thread but i have started watching union a little more of late and even at club level i am starting to see the skill level and flair in patches take over from League.

Its a worrying trend. Thank god there rules encourage negative play, as if it did not i think our code would be in even bigger trouble than it is now.

Won a few this season have we?

Your missing the point, why should every team have the same amount to spend on players wages regardless of the clubs turnover?

If teams were allowed to spend 50% of their income on players wages clubs would try harder to get the fans into the grounds hence bigger crowds, big clubs like Wigan which have success off the field would be rewarded with more money to spend and because of the quota restrictions we wouldn't get average aussies. Instead of Bailey, Coley, Smith, Phelps etc we would have Nathan Hindmarsh, Luke Bailey, Darren Lockyer and Brent Webb. Or even Sonny Bill Williams, O'Meley, Farrell would still be here as would Briscoe, Newton, Ashton, Brown, Robinson, Wild etc.

The small clubs are e scared of Wigan being able to flex their financial muscle and fulfill our maximum potential in sport, we are pegged back just because small clubs with no ambition to progress or haven't got the fans, stadium, junior players too succeed were sick of getting spanked every week.

The most pathetic and bitter post ive ever read.

Im enjoying this season more than most as the games are closer and the saints squad slightly weaker. What im enjoying is the likes of Wheeler, Eastmond, Armstrong, Lomax, Dixon, Ashurst, Emmitt, joining the likes of Graham, Roby and Wello in the first grade side.

We have developed a good blend of real quality in KC, Longy, Pryce, Gidley, Puletua etc to provide a solid platform for the above youngsters to develop. Saints and Leeds are the fore runners in long term planning and patience in there youth systems. Wheeler will develop into a class act, and there are high hopes for Eastmond and Emmitt.
Look at Salford, Turner, Ratchford, Myler etc are developing exciting young talent

You bang on about skills, Ive been watching saints for nearly 20 years and cant recall many forwards with the ball skills and passing accuracy of Graham, or the hands and step of young Wheeler. The likes of Ainscough and the Tomkins twins look good prospects yet two hardly get a look in.

The trouble with you lot is you still think you have a divine right to win things, yet your club over the last 10-15 years has been a shambles.
The mis-mangement is no-one else's fault but your own.