Not impressed by the Wigan team and by that i mean on paper. Pack too small, half backs not good enough and Loughlin will only get involved if you reach the big games.

Likes of Farrell seem to be going backwards far too many penalties and silly mistakes to the lads game.

It worries me as well. I feel the Shaun Wane approach seems to be a lot of aggression in the hit up and tackle. I don't think he wants us to be a team of thugs but a team that are formidable and strike fear. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have instilled the right mentality to go with that. Once we become aggressive we become angry, our discipline goes to smoke and we end up in brawls.

Either we need to change our mental approach with regards to aggression (I.E. Non-personal, calm and professional with the knowledge that it gains us an advantage in the match, not to make us look like we have the bigger dicks) or we change our approach to games completely.

Can we have pat back please

Good job we don't play on paper then.

You can't even beat 12 man Widnes.

Lucky to get a point in the end.

Farrell is a big liability for you guys. The weakness tonight was the halfs for me, simply did not control the game. Your number 6 looks like he can drive the ball in well but seems to lack the confidence to direct runners or find "that pass". Clubb, Tautai were the only dominating forwards but I was suprised by the lack of strength in the forwards from a wigan team tonight.

Bateman looks like he's maturing into a quality player too.

No doubt you'll still be up there though.

Smith and Tomkins want banning for 1 game at least. Amazing indiscipline just frustration when the ball is dead.

We got totally suckered in to things tonight and paid the price. The lack of composure shown over pre season and tonight is unforgivable. I've also got to agree with what's being said about Faz. This tripe from Wane that he needs to be more aggressive is just that! He's a line breaking back row who plays the game at a high intensity and gets through tonnes of work not an aggressive enforcer. Lads like Joel Tomkins and Bateman have a natural aggression, Faz does not.

In the plus side I thought there were some positives. Joel Tomkins looks much more like his old self with the ball, Gelling continues to grow, Logan Tomkins was busy, Tautai looks a good signing and I thought Sutton was superb and looks a superb prospect.

No problem with Tomkins at the end. It's an aggressive sport played by hard men. Tomkins felt one if his teammates was under threat and reacted.

The situation that lead to that though however was embarrassing. Smith needs a word with himself.

Here are my thoughts.

1) As has been said on here before, Farrell is an incredibly frustrating player. He's full of errors and ill discipline and generally a lot of stupidity. Funnily enough he then goes and makes a break and scores a try and all seems to be forgotten amongst some of our fans. The fact is that he's stagnating and not really developing and his lack of size is still a concern.

2)Goal kicking is still an issue. Inconsistency the main problem. Smith wasnt awful in this game but he missed the one which appeared easier than the others. Also, when we get penalties we arent making many metres when we kick it into touch. As was said at the fans forum, we may need someone who can kick with distance as well as accuracy.

3) Joe Burgess had a shocker. I really dont see the point in playing him either. He's undoubtedly got a bit of skill but he's hardly excellent and its time Manfredi was given his chance. Burgess should be sent up to Workington for the rest of the season in my opinion.

4) Williams really wasnt as good as others were making out. He had a few nice flick passes but that isnt what will win us games. Its consistently getting the ball to the line which will help us and he seemed reluctant too again. He messed up the chance to tackle Mellor and prevent that try aswell.

5) Matty Bowen. Offered nothing, really poor and even was to slow to outrun some of their props. If Hampshire hadnt have had a shocker of a pre-season hes easily be in this team.

6)Clubb, Bateman and Tautai were all pretty decent. Very impressed with Clubb.

I think you are right.you looked good in chunks tonight and normally would have steam rolled widnes after the sending off.

Still,got a point and the younger guys will have learnt so much more tonight than they would have in a season at lower grade.

Wigan still the team to beat with saints for my money.

I'm confused. I've been getting told all off season that it's easy to beat a team with 12 men? That's apparently the only reason we won the grand final anyway! But the mighty Wigan can't do it. strange

Tautai getting a fair bit of praise but his unforced error late in the game was critical, he has the odd error in his game so hopefully works on erasing them.