Quote: Finfin "Is that for the Rhinos or the holding company incorporating the rah rahs and the cricket facilities. Where do Leeds Carnegie fit into this?'" viewtopic.php?f=17&t=573195&start=0 Most of the £2m owed to the club is owed by the RU side.

Quote: Finfin "Is that for the Rhinos or the holding company incorporating the rah rahs and the cricket facilities. Where do Leeds Carnegie fit into this?'" viewtopic.php?f=17&t=573195&start=0 Most of the £2m owed to the club is owed by the RU side.

It's the Rhinos. Leeds CF & A.
The cricket facilities are owned by Yorkshire CCC.
The Union lot are separate and owe the Rhinos £827k
There's also a baffling annual "management charge" from the Rhinos to the Union lot. Roughly around £100-120k each year. Which is effectively Caddick taking Rhinos profits to prop up Carnegie.

One clarification - since the majority of the corporate facilities at Headingley fall within the control of the RL club (pavilion/Carnegie Stand/hotel), cricket does have a direct effect on Leeds' finances as Yorkshire couldn't hope to put a test or ODI without them. So Leeds make decent money out of this - not as much as in the good old days, but still very worthwhile. Hence the Strategic Report observes that, "Headingley Experience catering budget suffered mainly as a result of the One Day International cricket being a wash out and no play on the Friday of the Test Match."

Wigan RLC Ltd has minimal fixed assets, is technically insolvent and to continue trading is reliant on the owner not withdrawing his support. Even if the company is making small profits now, it's not a happy position for one of the larger British RL clubs.

how do you judge which clubs are the most sustainable?

imo a club needs to self generate funds that make it self sustainable as a business rather than relying on rich benefactors like either moran or lenagan,whose vast ammounts of money that they both put into their respective clubs certainly keep them not only sustainable but also very successful too

how would these clubs manage business wise and also success wise should these owners not pump their money in as they do and just put their self generated profits back into the club as the rhino's do?

apparently leeds rhinos' turnover a season or two ago was larger than both wigan's and saint helens' turnover combined

imo leeds rhinos are by far the best run sl club in this hemisphere without a doubt

How much has Lenagan put into Wigan?

not sure?
how much do you reckon it has cost him to keep wigan at the top echelon of sl without self sustainable profits as a business?

Wigan is a well run club since IL took over and is financially sustainable.
Leeds are also well run but as with most clubs it took Caddick to financially rescue them some years ago and following that he appointed Hetherington. Though their ground is a wreck and they need to invest in it, or a new one very soon.
Saints is a difficult one, they report a £2.4m loss, state they break even and will move into profit yet their loans from directors are massive. With their new stadium they should benefit from that surely in the next few years.
The financial aspects of Leeds, Wigan and Saints don't bother me, it's Bradford and Wakefield that are a worry. They both have been in all sorts of financial strife these past few years but hopefully with the increase in SKY monies those troubles will be behind them.

Wigan don't make self-sustainable profits? Genuinely interested to hear what information you have about Wigan's finances.

No club other than St Helens has spent more on their ground than Leeds in the past two decades. Just because the club hasn't chosen to spend that on the away doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Leeds have no rich backer or local council willing to build a new ground for them, nor can they sell the ground and buy a new one out of the proceeds because that isn't a proposition anyone at the club is willing to consider for the most famous stadium in the sport. And they certainly wouldn't go down the ridiculous route of selling their ground to a supermarket with no club-owned replacement from which to retain a sustainable business.

Leeds have the biggest turnover in the game principally because Headingley is the biggest income generating property in the game. And it generates that money thanks to the huge amounts invested in it by Leeds, especially in the Pavilion, the hotel, under the North Stand, at the Eastern end and in the South Stand - all places where the regular customers are.

Turnover means absolutely nothing. You can have a turnover of £100 million but if you are spending £120 million you are losing money. Better to have a turnover of £5 million and spend £4 million.

Wigan are making a profit season on season. There are other revenue streams that some clubs don't have, just as some clubs have revenue streams that Wigan don't have because of stadium ownership.

Lenegan isn't a successful business owner for no reason.

Happy Birthday Brian I believe it's today, all the RedVee fans sending Best Wishes to you,

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity

Part of the £2.4 million loss was down to extraordinary expenditure on completing the cladding at a cost of £750k. The building of the new ground and the year spent out of town was always going to affect the numbers for a good few years and the benefits were never going to be overnight.

There is no external debt and therefore no pressure from creditors. There are substantial directors loans however I am sure that those providing them are not expecting repayment in the medium term. Most businesses have ' debt' the only issue is when it cannot be repaid when scheduled and give the source of funds there is unlikely to be any demand.

I think we are better placed than most. We own the ground and everything that goes on in it lock stock and barrell including all the catering. The club is growing an excellent reputation for its functions and corporate hospitality. We have a leading academy set up. Crowds are as good as they have been in the modern era. We are on of very few clubs still prepared to pay transfer fees ( Amor and Burns) It all points to a promising future and if the club state they are rapidly approaching a break even position that is fantastic news.

The more clubs that can achieve what we have the better.