What a good post, particularly on the Fielden part,

I agree entirely. I have consistently been in the "give Noble another season" camp.

I do think that another prop was needed this year. Coleys form has been a bonus and Prescott is progressing well.

Why have we not signed another prop?
Is it Nobles fault?

We got gazumped by Wire for Carvell.

If my sources are correct we have for next season if things get sorted. I would then give Noble a year to get things done. I think then you will also see a better Fielden with another top class prop to help.

Jukesays made some very good points regarding SF and as I pointed out his all round stats are still the best prop forward at the club.

Time will tell.

I don't understand this trophies point people bring up. Since Noble joined us only 2 clubs have won the trophies available, those being Saints and Leeds. Now is this because those 2 have/had better coaches than us or because their playing rosters are much better than ours. I have always been in the camp that players account for the majority of what happens on the pitch not the coach.

The coach should take some credit/blame but just like I wasn't slating Noble early on in the year for our poor performances I don't think he should be taking all the plaudits for our recent performances.

Correctamundo!

And Bear in mind Saints & Leeds had a much steadier foundation to build from when their current & Previous coaches walked in to the Jobs.

They both gave their coaches 3/4 years and whilst some fans were calling for Tony Smith's head 2005/2006 when they didn't win anything they reaped their rewards in 2007 and this helped their next coach with stability of long term planning.

As for playing rosters, have a look at out squad mid 2005 early 2006 and tell me we havent got a better squad with Youth pushing them than then?

the anti noble brigade bring the trophys thing up because it gets used as a positive by the pro noble camp

judging a coach by the trophys he wins has to work both ways

you cant say , ''yeah but he had .....and now he has ....''

if people continue to quote figures to build a case for noble to stay , you will allways get the opposite from people wanting him out

Yes I know and given the evidence supports my view I don't think anyone understands why!

As to us not having a good enough team to have done better than we did that would be reflected in our league position. The better teams finish higher up the league. They are then at an advantage in the playoffs.

They get higher up the league and gain that advantage by not starting slowly and as the evidence shows those teams more often than not win the competition. It's exceptional for this not to happen.

This being the case Nobby's failure to get the team hitting the ground running three seasons in a row is pretty indefensible IMO.

Dave

I must admit to real surprise that so many people want Nobby to get another contract at Wigan.

I agree that good players make a key difference, but surely people can see that we're crying out for an intellectual coach to take us to the next level. I'm not sure who that might, but I'm guessing he's more likely to be found in or around the NRL than in SL.

Nobby does some good things, but let's not let a few wins blind us to the inadequacies in the team that we've seen for so many months. There've been other issues too aside from the purely technical - a lack of fitness, a lack of conditioning, a lack of motivation, a lack of morale, a lack of preparedness, etc.

Sure, all that seems to have been put right for the moment - but I can't tell you why and I'd be surprised if Nobby could. I refuse to believe this theory that it's part of some grand plan for us to play poorly in early season and play well in late season. Where would the logic be in that?

I'm all for showing loyalty to a guy. But I think he's had plenty loyalty shown to him already, especially given certain off-field incidents that have been reported.

I agree with the majority of that and have to admit my suprise to the bashing Wigan took in the League Express yesterday from Stevo, Sadlier and another journo who did the Leeds match report for not giving Nobby a new long term deal. They reckon our treatment of Noble has been disgraceful which i totally disagree with.

Noble has alot of advantages at this club that other coaches don't get yet year on year he doesn't seem able to lift the players to start playing before Mid June. He also neglects the best u21's side in the country much of the time, only playing any of them when he truely has to because of injuries. Alot of less understanding chairman would have shown him the door after 10 games when a team spending upto the full salary cap only had 3 wins on the board even after having a favourible run of fixtures.

Noble may get a new deal and if he does i hope it's for at least 2 years because we can't keep having this soap opera year after year but there is no way on earth he's been poorly treated and if Lenagan decideds not to offer him a deal he'll have very valid reasons for doing so.

No bashing that Wigan ever get in the League Express surprises me. Especially not when it's delivered by the likes of Stevo and Salder - two complete phonies if ever there were any.

I'm in the camp of Noble for another contract.

We have continued to suffer from the days when DW wouldn't allow us to use the various methods other clubs use to circumvent the salary cap.
Other clubs have overseas players better than ours due to their using these methods which provide tax free cash for the players. Whether IL uses these methods I don't know.

Another reason why we have had such an underpowered pack is that rumours suggest Noble has continued to identify players and IL has failed to sign them, for whatever reason. Last Friday was the first time for years our pack noticeable overpowered the Leeds forwards.
Prescott & Coley especially were very powerful, Mossop has added a great deal too IMO.

A couple of forward signings, which would be Nobles, and we will go very well next year.
I'd go with another contract for Noble, always have done.

I said after Friday that if we give Noble 2 more forwards i believe we'll see a different start to the season next year and maybe can challenge from a position of strengh instead of having to play catch up year on year.

I do believe Nobby has to take a part of the blame for our slow starts over the past few seasons but theres no doubt this has held him back to a point.

If we decide to give him a new deal though it's got to be for longer then one season. This uncertainty year after year won't do anybody any favours so if Lenagan decides to back him he's got to back him properly.

'Reason' or 'rumour'. Which is it?

Also, giving credit to Prescott and Mossop for Friday tends to contradict the general thrust of your argument. These are youngsters who have finally come good specifically because they haven't been replaced by big overseas buys.

You can't have it both ways.

If we buy two new props, as you (and Noble too, if you're to be believed) regularly demand, then we won't keep all our young starlets. Surely it's not difficult to understand that?

That is the dilemma isn't it. When IL took over he did say we had 7 props at the club so would not be getting any more. That forced Noble to play Prescott and O'Carroll.

I think the reason people want a prop is not because those two are not good enough but because even with Coley's better form this year we still lack a Skerrett or Logan type prop largely because Fielden is failing to fulfil that role for whatever reason.

So I can see the need to recruit one prop but it would be to replace Fielden in the side but can anyone see that happening with Noble as coach?

Give Noble two such props and Prescott and O'Carroll would not get a look in.

Dave

There are a number of areas where improvement is needed:

1. Team selection - we've ended up with the right team selection by accident, not design.

2. Conditioning - Riddell and Feka need to make some significant improvements, though the team as a whole now seems much fitter than it was to be fair (we now seem to be finishing games strongly rather than losing our way at the end).

3. Set-plays - have been absent for far too long this season. Some improvement (particularly the moves involving Carmont and Tomkins) has been seen recently but I still wonder what they do in training.

Like DaveO I don't buy the argument that the start to the season doesn't matter. Leaving aside the obvious point that you can exit the Cup early on in the season what we have done is to put far too much pressure on ourselves in the second half of the season. Should we really be having to battle so hard just to reach 4th? Surely we'd stand a better chance of winning the GF from 1st or 2nd?

We need to find someone who can make these improvements, I don't see how another season for Noble is going to enable him to make these changes.

I completely agree. One powerhouse prop would be ideal. A new coach - preferably a scholar of the game - who values a [icombination[/i of youth and experience would help us immeasurably.

The conditioning has been a massive issue for a few seasons now. Under Ashley-Jones, player after player were getting injured in training, and most of these wernt structural injuries, they were things like hamstrings, that is unforgivable, and points to not warming up properly or imballances, this has cleared up under forshaw, but i think gennerally, we are poorly conditioned, now i realise, that once they leave the training ground its upto them to keep their conditioning up. But some of the players should be ashamed of themselves.

With regards, to starting strongly, you cant win the league in the first 3 months of the season, but you can loose it!