My take on it and have not seen the game on Wigan t.v. yet but was the game.

First and foremost it was great weekend and so good to see many fans who we haven't seen for a long time due to covid, if you get a chance it's a must see place and certainly one we'd return to.

The game itself was strange, the way we started it looked we would win by 40 points, Harry Smith was kicking well, the chase was good and very few if any errors.
What changed I've not a clue but the things we'd been doing right we began to do wrong, penalties, errors, missed tackles etc. The first try we conceded I really need to see again as it looked to me as if Miski had been tackled in the air. We get back in the game after halftime and straight after scoring let the ball go dead from the kickoff!! Then Miski misjudged the 40:20 from which Toulouse score, schoolboy errors.
The match savior was Joe Shorrocks charge down of what would have been the winning drop goal, step up Harry Smith who whilst not having a great game was nowhere near IMO as bad as many are saying, and they probably weren't at the game.

I'll sit back and watch it again now and see if my opinions change.

Edit, remiss of not to congratulate Toulouse, they played well, should have won the game if they had controlled things in the last 15 minutes.

As mentioned it's a clean slate for me for Smith, however he has probably earned less of a grace period than others under the new regime.

The main problem I have with him was last year from the friendly vs York he made certain poor errors and continued to make the same poor errors throughout the season, in particular kicking out on the full and poor passing accuracy.

I think it's probably very hard to judge him on other elements of his game such as taking the line on and directing the play around which again was poor but I will also put that down to the "Hastings Effect" given he was so dominant.

I've still yet to watch the game in full so can't comment on his performance against Toulouse I was simply going off hearing other comments abut it from those who were there (who would not influenced by any commentators).

Not a fan of the Wigan TV commentary. Bilko is fine but Joe Mills resembles one of those self-entitled fans who instantly overreacts and throws his toys out of the pram when something goes wrong. You wouldn't see the level of criticism he gives to the team/individuals from neutral commentators so not good to see it on Wigan TV.

Bilko is excellent and analysis is spot on.

Joe’s normally okay but he does overreact a little bit to stuff. “TERRIBLE DEFENCE AGAIN” any time we concede.

Normally good though and I thank them both for doing it.

I think Joe Mills and Bilko do a good job. I really like Joe Mills passion and enthusiasm for the club and was just a little surprised how negative he sounded on Harry Smith after watching the game in full but it's understandable that some heat would come on one of your playmakers, when he's the main change from a team that has been going very well to date. The two guys did make a great point of how Cust had swapped sides to accommodate Smith coming in and how that had impacted on the whole side and Cust himself (who did not have his best game). I thought that point probably should have been focussed on a bit more than Harry Smith's individual performance. The main issue ultimately was the silly errors and some really poor individual defence and whilst we had some clunky attack at times in the game, us scoring 29 points in a game would've felt like Christmas last season.

Agree. Bilko is excellent, Joe Mills is the absolute opposite.

Another night or different officials one or both of the tries involving Miski would have been chalked off.
His worst mistake if I viewed it properly was letting a kick go into touch resulting in a 40/20. Lack of concentration or low in confidence I’m not sure but hopefully he’ll learn and come back stronger but unless there are injuries I think some more time in the reserves awaits him.
Far from a great debut but you can’t write a lad off after one game.

Honestly don’t remember anyone being too highly critical of Smith on the night but he did have a mixed bag of a game. Although Toulouse threw it away and we weren’t at the races I was strangely confident that if Smith got a chance he would drop the goal. Unsure what to make of Smith but I’d like to think that there is decent player there. The vast majority of the team had an off night particularly after the first ten minutes so for me we haven’t seen Smith playing in a fully functional team since he’s made his debut.

As a fan I was more concerned and I am most weeks, about the teams collective performance rather than individual performances. I don’t think one player had a really good game so picking out individuals for me doesn’t really add to the debate. We were second best for the majority of the match and the second game in a row were our pack was second best.

At times without the the ball we were slow. Very slow. This for me more worrying than Smith giving out a couple of misjudged passes. I’m just hoping that we held something back on Saturday with the Catalan game coming up. I’m certainly hoping that our playing tempo is increased by several notches because if it isn’t it could be a long night. I’ve got a feeling that Saturday may have been a wake up call for the players and I genuinely anticipate a much stronger and faster showing against Catalan. Whether that’ll be enough we will have to wait and see.

I wasn't sure about the 40:20 and couldn't see if he was Lax in stopping it or if the kick was awkward/misjudged etc.
The Harry Smith & Miski criticism seems to have emanated from the commentary as 99% of people at that time couldn't view it for themselves, and thus the Myth perpetuates.

I don't & haven't listened to Joe Mills & Bilko a lot (no more than couple of times inc. Saturday) so not best placed to assess and my only observation is I think they're a good pair. Mills provides the enthusiasm and dynamic whilst Bilko does a good seconds job and comes in with good observations & statistical stuff
I would say that any commentator who is associated to their own club though needs to understand the situation a little differently than a professional commentator as a neutral say, in that they are viewing those players week in week out, serving their commentary in the main to one set of supporters and their Bias/observations etc. can magnify issues either favourably or negatively dependant on how the commentator views situations i.e. Last week you would think Miski & Smith were 99% responsible for that result - Yet other players escape criticism when for example it suits the commentator (Understandably) to magnify the plus points of players such as Field & Mago & KPP for example for entertainment purposes and in turn they escape criticism sometimes when they should get it.

I said at Weekend and have used this analogy before, we were in a similar position in Maguire's first season, winning 20 nil at Bradford and losing 22-20
At the time coming off I said to my mate who was fuming - The one positive was that the following week (Hull at Home - Who had a Very strong team with a Very Big & Strong pack) we would get an answer to a very important question.
Are we as good as we think we are? Was the Bradford game a Blip? or was the first 4 weeks of the season the Blip and we weren't as good as we thought we were.

Whilst I don't think this is exactly the same I get the same feeling
Were the first 3 weeks the Team/Us riding a bit of a Good feeling wave etc. and over hyping/exaggerating our abilities and chances?
Or, was it a blip and we got Lax, which in turn will give us the kick up the backside we need and remind us that we need to be 100% in regards to attitude and effort week in week out

Obviously I'm hoping it's the latter - But either way this is all part and parcel of the journey and what makes us intrigued by the sport
If the Recipe for success was stagnant and predictable there would be little to ponder over and discuss and everyone would be doing things the same way

Saturday was Peets/New Coaching structure & players first little Bump - How will they react?

Can't wait to go again Saturday and find out
Putting my neck on the block here - But last year I predicted a massive good hiding at Catalans as I could tell 7/7 or not we were woeful
This year I think the Effort/Structure/Coaching etc. is much improved and we'll give it a good go & win or lose (Which can always happen at Catalans even when they aren't as good a team as they are now)

I have to say while not having seen the full toulouse game one are we do need to improve on is our line speed in defence. We allow the opposition forwards to get on too much of a roll when we should be shutting them down before they get going as Saints do.

I’m torn on this. It’s something I’ve been sat thinking about at times this season and all roads lead back to thinking how we close that gap to Saints. Yes their line speed is unbelievable and I wonder if we can try and replicate that but I keep coming back to the same point- we will need beat them at that game when we play them. To play a game of us meeting fire with fire and flying off the line, we’ll have to accept it’s likely to be decided through the middle of the field and we’ll be using an awful lot of energy in doing that. Are we good enough to beat them through the middle? Not a chance IMO.

I’m not saying we can’t up it by the way but to replicate it, you need to go all in on it, week in, week out and accept that we’re unlikely to see sparkling attacking rugby (as Saints fans don’t). I think we just need to find our style, our identity and way of doing things and in fairness to Peet, I think he is trying to do that. It’s been a positive start but with plenty to work on. We can certainly put more energy in to defence but I’m just hoping it’s a time and place thing and when the time calls for it, we’ll see an uplift in intensity defensively. We’ll need to see it on Saturday and I think we will but we need a balance between good defensive intent and not getting sucked in to a forwards battle. Against Catalans and in particular Saints, we’re going to need to reserve plenty of energy for when we have the ball and try and run them and keep turning them.

add French to that also will add a bit of dynamic play hopefully

I also think Havard with the solid work of Ellis and with Singleton, Smithies and Byrne improved will add a lot over the season once back into this team. Mago gives us that X factor impact into that equation. How good are we, well definitely better to watch than last season but with a few tests to pass. I think at season start we would all of took what we have seen as a huge positive.

I don’t want to derail the thread so apologies. However not sure where you are getting this idea (again) of Saints fans not being happy with our attack?

42 points away from home last Friday, we looked sublime. Our left edge of Matuatia, Percival and Makinson looking superb. Dodd is showing his class week on week now too. Let’s not forget we have a brand new spine this season, our first choice left winger hasn’t played yet, we’ve had brand new centre/wing combinations on the right side most games and Makinson has played on the left rather than the right all season.

Wakefield is the only real game so far that we didn’t get going and stuttered a little. Not sure what more you want us to do? Have you seen our points difference?

I’ll give you HKR, I didn’t see it, so can’t comment but I’ve seen your other three games and the attack functioned as a result of your defence. Grinding the opposition down and picking them off in their 20. It isn’t traditional attacking rugby (that Saints are famed for) by any stretch (maybe at HKR it was try’s from all over the field, 60,70,80 metres, I don’t know).

We’ve had great points differences in the past and been much the same in terms of a style of play. You score your points through your defence IMO and one or two individuals bring a bit of magic. In terms of my post, I’m saying for us to replicate that is pretty much impossible. Saints clearly put so much time and energy in to practicing that, as well as Woolf coming up with his ‘energy saving’ tactics.