I found the Whitley signing strange Stu, as Saints didn’t need to strengthen their back row. I can only assume that they thought a player was moving on but he didn’t and, by that time, Whitley had already signed on the dotted line. Outside backs are definitely required but, like you, I am not sure how much spare cash there is in the pot.

Matautia is moving into the middle to replace LMS. Whitley effectively replaces Matautia in the 2nd row options.

It's all opinion, of course, but I'd slightly take issue with them being as good as any "if fit and on form" for the simple reason that they're barely, if ever, both fit and on form. I think it's a little disingenuous to make a comparison based on their absolute best when they are unlikely to be that. It would be just as relevant to say that, at their worst (i.e. injured and/or unfit) they're no good at all.

I know you allude to this yourself in the above but the point I'm making is they need to be graded on what you're likely to get rather than an ideal world scenario that's unlikely to happen. On that score, I think, as a pairing they're nowhere near amongst the best.

To take it to extremes in order to illustrate my point, it would be like signing Wally Lewis because, at his best, he would be the best in the world. It ain't going to happen!

Now, I accept that there's a chance that they could both come back, remain fit and both play to their absolute potential. Is it likely though?

Be a bit more likely if we stop playing Percy as though he weighs 20 stone!

That's very true! It's an interesting point though given your front row options. There isn't the yardage there that you've had in recent years so the onus will be, even more, on the backs. I saw it suggested that you start with Lees/Knowles at prop in order to protect and preserve Walmsley's effectiveness. As an oppsition fan I can only hope Wellens is of a similar mind as you'll spend the first 20 minutes of every game in your own half with the added bonus that Percival and Makinson will be flogged to death. Win/win as far as I can see.

They played 23 and 21 times respectively this season. I think their apparent “hardly ever fit” reputation is being over played slightly.

How many in the league YG?

Edit: and how many were they fully fit? I know Hurrell in particular played loads whilst looking absolutely shot

21 and 18 in the league so comfortably more than half.

Agree on Hurrell but not Percival. Percival consistently plays well and his standards very very rarely dip.

Hurrell became very hit and miss as the year went on and was eventually dropped for the crunch games.

Our squad is crying out for another centre. Our next best after Percival and Hurrell is either Whitley (a 2nd rower) or Ben Davies who is depressingly average.

I’ve no concerns about our pack at all. An upgrade on Mbye would be nice in an ideal world but not the end of the world. But our backs have very very little depth and it’s glaringly obvious to me we are weak there. We’ve replaced Roby and LMS with Clark and Whitley and then swapped a bunch of kids for another bunch of kids. But quite clearly we’ve not replaced Hopoate yet so I’m still hoping we have something up our sleeve.

Not much more in Hurrell's case mate. I make it 60% and I would hazard that several of those were considerably below his best. Judging by his Tonga appearance he hasn't had some Eureka moment either so, even allowing some latitude for Percival (only 70% himself so still not great), I'll stand by my assessment.

Depends which assessment. If it’s the one that said they’re never fit then that’s wrong.

Going back to Hurrell, he looked horrific yesterday. If we get that version turning up in 2024 I’d be extremely worried. He looked physically and mentally shot at.

If I remember rightly YG, Matautia only extended his contract late on in the season and that may have had a knock on effect regarding the Whitley signing. Matautia at prop is a big gamble in my view, I think Saints should have looked for a recognised prop rather than possibly putting round pegs into square holes. I suppose time will tell whether the right decision was made.

Konrad has never been fit, he looks way over his fighting weight. Wellens will need to flog him pre-season.