Interesting that 3 players were carded today. One was never a yellow and the other two were both Saints players through grubby play. Hair pulling and throwing punches in the tackle respectively. Given the constant 'anti Saints conspiracy theories' that were prevalent throughout the season, I wonder if they'll finally accept that they have some real grubs in the Red Vee these days and that perhaps it was their discipline that was the real (and indeed, only) reason?

To be fair to Lees, the hair pulling was extremely silly but he was taking a swinging arm and a facial whilst he was on the floor

No clue what has happened to Hurrell. He was an absolute mess today, though that kind of aggression is fairly out of character from him (or at least from what I’ve seen of him). That said, I’m incredibly worried that not only is he gonna be a first choice centre next year, but we have literally zero back up for him. I have nightmares about Ben Davies playing 20 games at centre next year.

Something seriously wrong with Hurrell today. Was very emotional pre game and then was acting really out of character during the game with lots of grubby play. Really odd from him.

Didn't Hurrell get banned for something towards the back end of last season? Sorry, I can't remember the incident but I do recollect people saying it was out of character then too.

I've read over on RedVee (yes, that again) people claiming that Hurrell and Percival is as good a centre partnership as any in Superleague or some such. I thought it was a very blinkered view then and doubly so after today. Percy has been quality but is regularly injured (in fact his non appearances for England this series are very indicative of where he is these days) and Hurrell seems to have completely lost whatever it was he once had, and what he once had was very flawed to start with, albeit he could be destructive going forward.

I'm genuinely unsure, Welsby apart, where the threat is going to come from next year for Saints. Tommy Makinson, if he stays relatively injury free, but beyond that it's all likely to be bit part stuff without some further signings. Last season was poor in attack but next year has all the makings of being worse.

Well Percy is still quality and is very consistent pretty much every time he plays. The worry as you say is that he seems to be getting injured and missing games more and more often. He's also a pretty good source of strike in attack as he's pretty good at beating his man. Hurrell on his day is also very destructive in attack. Could even be argued he was our only real attacking threat early in the season and we'd have been lost without him. Problem with Hurrell is he always gives you the impression that even when his fitness is good, he's always right on the edge of letting himself go. And his margin is such that if he's 5% off it then his liability in defence becomes too much to compensate for and he starts having brain farts such as offloads that aren't on, giving away penalties etc. He looks very much to be well over the line atm, and has a huge pre season coming up. If they're both fit and on form then I'd agree they're up there with any centre partnership in Super League. I just don't see that being the case very often and a centre really has to be top of our shopping list. We cannot be going in with Ben Davies as first cover, although I suspect Whitley will be filling in before Davies

I found the Whitley signing strange Stu, as Saints didn’t need to strengthen their back row. I can only assume that they thought a player was moving on but he didn’t and, by that time, Whitley had already signed on the dotted line. Outside backs are definitely required but, like you, I am not sure how much spare cash there is in the pot.

Matautia is moving into the middle to replace LMS. Whitley effectively replaces Matautia in the 2nd row options.

It's all opinion, of course, but I'd slightly take issue with them being as good as any "if fit and on form" for the simple reason that they're barely, if ever, both fit and on form. I think it's a little disingenuous to make a comparison based on their absolute best when they are unlikely to be that. It would be just as relevant to say that, at their worst (i.e. injured and/or unfit) they're no good at all.

I know you allude to this yourself in the above but the point I'm making is they need to be graded on what you're likely to get rather than an ideal world scenario that's unlikely to happen. On that score, I think, as a pairing they're nowhere near amongst the best.

To take it to extremes in order to illustrate my point, it would be like signing Wally Lewis because, at his best, he would be the best in the world. It ain't going to happen!

Now, I accept that there's a chance that they could both come back, remain fit and both play to their absolute potential. Is it likely though?

Be a bit more likely if we stop playing Percy as though he weighs 20 stone!

That's very true! It's an interesting point though given your front row options. There isn't the yardage there that you've had in recent years so the onus will be, even more, on the backs. I saw it suggested that you start with Lees/Knowles at prop in order to protect and preserve Walmsley's effectiveness. As an oppsition fan I can only hope Wellens is of a similar mind as you'll spend the first 20 minutes of every game in your own half with the added bonus that Percival and Makinson will be flogged to death. Win/win as far as I can see.

They played 23 and 21 times respectively this season. I think their apparent “hardly ever fit” reputation is being over played slightly.

How many in the league YG?

Edit: and how many were they fully fit? I know Hurrell in particular played loads whilst looking absolutely shot