Hi mate. Great post on a subject that seems unable to attract to many things worth reading! I disagree with some of what you have posted but I think we can all agree on the last paragraph.

It is a lie to say saints and or hohaia have made up this injury to get him off the books.

It is an opinion for me to say I think it's likely that flower caused the injury.

By "accept it" I meant accept that it's my opinion. You don't have to agree with it to accept it.

Do you understand what an opinion is? You seem to be struggling.

Sorry JJ! Haha..

I'm not struggling at all. It's quite clear now that the definition of a lie is "an untruth told by someone other than Yellow Giraffe".

The fact is, your assumption that Flower is the sole cause of Hohaia's problems is no more the truth than an other unsubstantiated theory doing the rounds. If, for example, it comes to light that Hohaia doesn't pursue Flower at what point does your 'opinion' become a lie? Similarly if it does transpire that part of the reason for Lance retiring was because he no longer figured in Saints plans at what point do the other people's 'lies' become opinion oe even truth.

You are not the sole arbiter of what is opinion and what is lie. At this stage they are ALL opinions or they are ALL lies depending on what terminology you prefer to use. Further down the line one or the other (or indeed parts of several) opinion(s) will turn out to be the truth. Until that time anything based on anything other than known fact is just so much hot air. Yours included.

You are wrong. You are missing one vital piece of information and that is that I know, 100% fact, that Hohaia has had these symptoms and they are the cause of his retirement. Therefore, I know, 100% fact, that it is a false accusation/a lie to state that he has retired simply so Saints can sign a full back. I don't need to go into what I know or how but there are several people on the Saints board who can vouch for the information I get hold of.

So they aren't all opinions or all lies. Some of them are opinions, some are ridiculous accusations.

My opinion about the cause of the symptoms may get proven to be wrong, in which case I will hold my hands up and say I simply got it wrong.

Moderators don't have an ignore function

Some folk hate the truth that much that they have to "ignore" anyone who posts things they don't like to hear. Fantastic.

But you DON'T KNOW that the sole cause is the Grand Final incident. In fact I can tell you from personal experience that it will almost certainly never be solely attributed to this. Therefore your 'opinion' that it is, is equally as wrong as those suggesting it was so Saints could sign a fullback or any of the other made up opinions that are being peddled. So yes; they are all opinions or they are all lies. You can choose the terminology.

If you 'get it wrong' will you hold your hands up and say you were part of the "15 pages of bitterness, lies and accusations"? Let's face it; those saying that he left for other reasons could equally say "oops! Sorry, I got it wrong!".

When you start posting it you can use this argument. Or is your 'opinion' now the de facto truth?

I have never said I do know it's the sole cause!!!! I've said its my opinion. What is it about that very simple thing that you are failing to comprehend? You are getting two principles mixed up here and we are going round in circles.

I'll keep it very simple.

I know it is a fact that he has retired because of the symptoms. It's not an opinion, it is fact. Therefore, I know that people are falsely accusing him and the club of lying. They are doing this without anything whatsoever to support the claim; they are simply throwing theories out there to discredit Hohaia and/or Saints.

Secondly, it is only my opinion that the Flower punch is the likely cause of these symptoms. That opinion is based on what I've been told about his symptoms and the initial diagnosis.

Surely you can see the difference? I have an opinion based on facts. Others are creating their own theories based on nothing.

I really couldn't make it more simple for you.