FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Tim Smith |
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "What makes Hansen the perfect player to bring on? Does he offer any impact in attack to mix up the game or trouble the other team? No. Does he offer a spark of genius to crack a defense? No. And you class this as being the 'perfect' player to bring on?'"
If you had read my post properly you would have seen the last bit which said when a big defensive effort was needed which at times in games they are. With him on instead of Hock and Lockers in the other 2nd row spot then our defence would be very sound.
Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Hansen started his Wigan 1st team career in 2004, have we seen anything within his development in the last 5 years which say to us 'he is one of the best around in the SR and deserves a place in a WINNING team?' Nope, not at all. '"
I think you are talking rubbish here IMO. We all know he was top tackler last year and before anyone says it was because he assisted in tackles so many times that is nonsense. I also think people miss the fact he runs some clever lines on attack. For some reason in the space of the off season Hansen has gone from being generally praised to the latest "not good enough" figure pretty much the same as Goulding.
Quote: Last Son of Wigan "We have several other players all looking for a chance to prove they are better in the SR, given the best of them a shot, if they prove to be better, no one will complain.
Every single player at the club needs looking at, of they don't have the potential to be a cracking player, or are already a top player, they have no place at a WINNING club. The drop of standards needs to stop.'"
You can examine every player you want but with a salary cap players like Hansen and (if he wasn't probably on a high wage) Bailey do a job. The problem isn't with squad players like Hansen but with the supposed super star players like Fielden, Riddell, TL and Lockers. These are the players who aren't as good as they are cracked up to be. If they were we would have our quota of high earning super star players and players like Hansen would be appreciated for what they are, not slagged off because they are not a clone of Betts in his prime. You are barking up the wrong tree IMO.
Dave
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| Quote: DaveO "
These are the players who aren't as good as they are cracked up to be. If they were we would have our quota of high earning super star players and players like Hansen would be appreciated for what they are, not slagged off because they are not a clone of Betts in his prime. You are barking up the wrong tree IMO.
Dave'"
Personally speaking, I know what we have in our reserve/academy set up and Harrison Hansen is not offering as much as some of those players. Both Liam Farrell and Lee Mossop are on course to over take him unless he brings something extra to the side.
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29557_1715786245.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png |
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Fair point.
I know SOL gets a lot of stick on here from certain quarters, but he's a giant in defence and one of the few who tries to make things happen going forward. I really rate him, better than Sinfield IMO.'"
Only from those with more opinions than sense!
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[color=#FF4000:3htgpm5r][quote:3htgpm5r]I read that Leeds-Bradford is an airport and that Wigan-St Helens is a rivalry. It's one I can't wait for[/quote:3htgpm5r]
Ryan Hoffman
[quote:3htgpm5r]After all, rugby league has a history of ideas that appear madcap at first but are taken up elsewhere, usually by rugby union[/quote:3htgpm5r]
Christopher Irvine - The Times
[quote:3htgpm5r]
Wire fans, like Leeds fans, are fickle as feck, and mostly glory supporters.
[/quote:3htgpm5r]
Sherbert Dip - Leeds Fan
[quote:3htgpm5r]I will never forget that atmosphere at Knowsley Road on Good Friday when the final hooter sounded. On behalf of all the fellas thank you so much for being the greatest fans in the world.[/quote:3htgpm5r]
Phil Bailey[/color:3htgpm5r]: |
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| Quote: Alex BP' "Personally speaking, I know what we have in our reserve/academy set up and Harrison Hansen is not offering as much as some of those players. Both Liam Farrell and Lee Mossop are on course to over take him unless he brings something extra to the side.'"
Spot on, and when/if he does get overtaken then it falls to the player who has been dropped to add something to his game. Which I think he can do. Its something that happens all through sport, if your second best to a certain player then you lose your place.
Some will argue that there are reserves who offer more, but at reserve level, I very much doubt they could perform the same at SL level. Maybe next season/end of this season for Farrell, Mossop isn't far off, and this spell at Barrow could do him the world of good!
The futures bright
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| If anyone is talking rubbish it's you.
Firstly don't be offensive. It's great you have an opinion on what's best, but it's not ok to speak down to someone by saying something like 'you're talking rubbish' when it's someone's opinion.
I think your attitude with regards to the players and the club is what breeds a poor team, you comments about Hansen reflect this, in opposition my comments show I'm pushing for a winning team, something we are currently a million miles away from.
How does this link to Hansen? You fail to recognise 2 important factors with our current players.
1) It isn't just the poor players who are a problem (i.e Fielden) but players who simply aren't offering enough in every aspect of their game. This is why we don't have a winning team.
You heavily focus on Hansen's defensive work, but failed to recognise my earlier point that I made which was a player gets a 'tackle' for being part of the tackle, this doesn't make a tackle machine as we are lead to believe, this 'Hansen tackle machine tag' takes the attention away from the fact that he offers very little in attack, if you were building a winning team full of winners could you say Hansen is a well rounded great player? No. A tackler is all well and good, but as discussed earlier it is possible to have a tackler who can do lots in attack. Hansen does not!! We need people who offer more, this leads directly to the second point.
2) Hansen's place in the 17 means a potentially better player is missing out on the first team.
You spoke of Hansen's experience over the likes of Flanny or Farrell or Mossop, does experience always equal a better player? No. i.e Sam Tomkins, i.e Shaun Ainscough, Ainscough or Calderwood? But Calderwood has more experience so he must be better-hardly.
If Farrell etc stepped in and offered more in attack and equal in defense, who would you want in your team?
At this point we don't know if Farrell etc will offer more than Hansen, so what do we do to find out (drum role please) we play them in the first team, you never know, giving them a try might actually work!
Salary cap issues.. who's on more money do we think Hansen Flanny Farrell Mossop when he was here? Tough one to call! Hansen.
Seriously, if you want a winning team, you need to field cracking players, Hansen's had 5years to showcase his skills, bout time one of the other lads proved to the world they're better than him.
If you don't cut it, you're out. Lets be winners.
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| Quote: Alex BP' "Personally speaking, I know what we have in our reserve/academy set up and Harrison Hansen is not offering as much as some of those players. Both Liam Farrell and Lee Mossop are on course to over take him unless he brings something extra to the side.'"
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "
I don't watch the reserves so won't comment other than to ask if the other comments are warrantied or is it simply a case of Higham (gone), Mathers (gone), Goulding (gone) who can we stick the knife into next?
Also, can anyone comfirm that they have experienced this so called arrogance that he has? Personally, I've yet to see it and speak to him more than most on here.
If there are options worth pursuing from the lower ranks them Nobby would be remiss if he isn't checking them out. However, to say he isn't good enough because JJB, Ellis, Wilkin and Gilmour are better is a poor argument IMO.
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16493_1299497226.jpg [quote="king warrior":prbr924b]Adam Blair flew over yesterday and has been training the deal is going to be signed this week
Got to say this is a top signing[/quote:prbr924b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16493.jpg |
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "I don't watch the reserves so won't comment other than to ask if the other comments are warrantied or is it simply a case of Higham (gone), Mathers (gone), Goulding (gone) who can we stick the knife into next?
Also, can anyone comfirm that they have experienced this so called arrogance that he has? Personally, I've yet to see it and speak to him more than most on here.
If there are options worth pursuing from the lower ranks them Nobby would be remiss if he isn't checking them out. However, to say he isn't good enough because JJB, Ellis, Wilkin and Gilmour are better is a poor argument IMO.'"
I think Fielden, Coley, Riddell. Roberts, Smith, Bailey and O'Loughlin are waaaay above him on the RLFans scapegoat stakes at the moment.
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "I don't watch the reserves so won't comment other than to ask if the other comments are warrantied or is it simply a case of Higham (gone), Mathers (gone), Goulding (gone) who can we stick the knife into next?
Also, can anyone comfirm that they have experienced this so called arrogance that he has? Personally, I've yet to see it and speak to him more than most on here.
If there are options worth pursuing from the lower ranks them Nobby would be remiss if he isn't checking them out. However, to say he isn't good enough because JJB, Ellis, Wilkin and Gilmour are better is a poor argument IMO.'"
I too haven't seen an arrogance, for me his attitude isn't the issue.
Why would highlighting SRers of the teams we are trying to compete with a bad point? Sure it's all in relation to where we're at to where we want to be in terms of players in every position.
Remember we want to be a winning side to have to match players. Highlighting how he doesn't live up to the standard we are looking for is relevant.
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| Quote: Pemps "I think Fielden, Coley, Riddell. Roberts, Smith, Bailey and O'Loughlin are waaaay above him on the RLFans scapegoat stakes at the moment.'"
Agreed. I don't think people are looking for a scapegoat, just a better team.
i.e the likes of Mathers etc weren't good enough so we got rid, which makes perfect sense.
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "]
I too haven't seen an arrogance, for me his attitude isn't the issue.
Why would highlighting SRers of the teams we are trying to compete with a bad point? Sure it's all in relation to where we're at to where we want to be in terms of players in every position.
Remember we want to be a winning side to have to match players. Highlighting how he doesn't live up to the standard we are looking for is relevant.'"
Because I can guarantee that those players mentioned are also significantly better than our reserves without even watching them play! Ellis is better than any back rower at the club. Does that mean we get rid of Hock and Lockers too?
That being the case we'd better not even start with the front row. You don't need to start naming props and hookers from the 2 best sides, virtually every club has better than us. IMO Craig Stapleton and Ray Cashmere of Salford would do a job for us at present.
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "Because I can guarantee that those players mentioned are also significantly better than our reserves without even watching them play! Ellis is better than any back rower at the club. Does that mean we get rid of Hock and Lockers too?
That being the case we'd better not even start with the front row. You don't need to start naming props and hookers from the 2 best sides, virtually every club has better than us. IMO Craig Stapleton and Ray Cashmere of Salford would do a job for us at present.'"
You're nearly getting the point. We need better players. Hock, Lockers in the second row can compete with the best of them.
Haven't you seen how many posts there's been about our front row? we all are pushing for a new one.
The standard is set with the best team, this is why they are the best. We look at the bench mark, as I've done thats what we push for.
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "You're nearly getting the point. We need better players. Hock, Lockers in the second row can compete with the best of them.
Haven't you seen how many posts there's been about our front row? we all are pushing for a new one.
The standard is set with the best team, this is why they are the best. We look at the bench mark, as I've done thats what we push for.'"
How do you justify getting annoyed with DaveO telling you that you are talking rubbish when you post comments like this?
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "IAlso, can anyone comfirm that they have experienced this so called arrogance that he has? Personally, I've yet to see it and speak to him more than most on here.
'"
I mentioned arrogance on a pure Rugby basis.
Off the pitch, in person etc could be a different story.
IMO, he thinks his position is safe and would rather work hard in defence and enjoy the life of first team Rugby rather than take it to the next level.
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| Quote: Alex BP' "I mentioned arrogance on a pure Rugby basis.
Off the pitch, in person etc could be a different story.
IMO, he thinks his position is safe and would rather work hard in defence and enjoy the life of first team Rugby rather than take it to the next level.'"
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