I know it's all about opinions but

Lockers can do the tackle work and offer far more in attack!

How can you not see that? Which leaves Hock and Tomkins to make up the back three..

For you stat lovers check out who's the top tackler (Lockers).

As much as you rate Hansen (which infact backs up the initial point of discussion) He isn't as good as the other 3 starters. His place in the 17 is at the expense of someone else, he's average!

Hock as an impact? Why not have him on for most of the game? He has the fitness and effectiveness to be on the field for much longer.

We are all Wigan fans, we all want the team to succeed, however we have different opinions on how to get the most from the team we have, hence the whole entirety of this website... discussion.

I will not admit 'I'm wrong' as someone asked me to, I hope their goal isn't of my admittance because my opinion is my opinion.

I have never once told someone they are wrong etc, simply because it's their own opinion and to them they aren't wrong.

The thread was developed as IN MY OPINION certain players are overrated, I put this out there as a point of discussion, some will agree and some won't.

Thats life.

Lockers has played had more game time than Hansen, so of course he is going to make more tackles and he has been played at LF for most of the season not in the SR.

It's based on nothing tho! Tell me why does he offer nothing in attack in your opinion? If you want to have your opinions taken seriously they must have some grounding or basis with which to prove them. You could say the sky is made of cheese and it may be your opinion but it's wrong! You said Hansen offers very little in attack but yet the stats show that he holds his own against plenty of others in the league including the young player of the year!

I’d put Hock as an impact player as he can turn a game when coming off the bench much in the same way Feka. It’s not about if he could do 80 mins or not its where he has the greatest effect on the team.

In regards to my original post about Hansen vs Lockers I did say if Hansen works on getting involved more in the game and improving the other aspects which aren’t as strong as his excellent defence much in the same way JJB did at Leeds he can be a better player than Lockers is now in a few years time.

Look, surely there is someone else you can argue with.
Give Hansen the ball, he'll run directly at the line then take the tackle. Not offload not break the line or even look at threat to the opposition.

This will happen 9/10 with him.

This thread now as the impression that I'm against Hansen, I'm not at all, just think he's strong in defense and no threat to opposition thats it.

Leave it at that.

If you think Hansen poses a threat? My word. You must think Gaz Hock is unbelievable!

Anyway, thats for bigging Hansen up so much, makes my initial point!

I havent bigged him up at Do you get off on this sort of stuff?

Quite a few people have stated that he is not overrated. If fact some people will say that is the opposite, underrated. Because very rarely he gets applauded for playing well and the work he does goes unnoticed. I think Hansen's a good player in both defence and attack.

Do I get off on it? It's you who won't leave it be!

Fair enough lets leave it at Hansen is not clueless in attack.

Obviously you're just here to argue.

Sorry, discussion is good, this is not an argument.

I will not entertain this.

It did start off as a discussion but you are obviously letting opinion get in the way of facts, so it cant go any further.

But its been nice discussing with you anyway

I rate Gaz Hock very highly and he can be a match winner, he is undoubtedly world class on his day and I don't think too many people would argue with that. When Wigan are on top in games, Hock stands out as one of our best, his offloading can be fantastic, he runs in hard and has good vision.

The problem comes when things aren't going our way, when for whatever reason we end up having to defend repeat sets of 6. Hock is the one who will argue with the referee when we get penalised for being offside and give away another ten metres; Hock is the one who will get frustrated and tackle someone high; Hock is the one who, when we have heroically defended our line for 12 tackles, and eventually get the ball back will run to dummy half and knock on for no reason whatsoever; Hock is the one who will throw a wild pass out and the other side will pick the ball up and score. His lack of composure and his rapidly increasing levels of frustration leave us facing an uphill battle and cause the rest of the team to start getting frustrated and the opposition to gain confidence. The fans start booing and the team get demoralised and we end up losing to teams who, on paper, are not as good as us.

If we were a World class side you can get away with having a couple of players with these type of flaws in their game but unfortunately we aren't a world class side, we are a massively inconsistent side. We are capable of beating the best when things go our way, but the reality is things don't always go our way and in these situations we need solid, consistent level-headed players who you can rely on to defend well and keep hold of the ball in attack. In this situation the boot goes on the other foot, the opposition get frustrated about not being able to score, then they make mistakes and we will be much more effective in attack.

A decent sports psychologist would quickly iron out the problems in Hock's game but as it stands I simply do not agree with the the apparent view that he should be in the side every week regardless of what he does wrong.

When we start to get the basics right as players like Hansen do the rest will fall into place. Schoolboy errors are losing us too many games, fact.

Hock is only ever bad when Wigan as a team are bad

Cause and effect.