Same, just to come away saying how well we played, or even how well half the team played would be good.

Which proven coaches have failed at Wigan in your opinion, then the question becomes much easier to answer.

For me a proven coach is one who has been involved in the game and brought success to a number of different clubs, not one who has come from 1 club and then moves to another and fails.

Millward was not a proven coach, nor in my opinion is Noble, what they have done is maintained or brought a simillar level of success to the 1 club. The acid test of a proven coach is doing this on more than one occasion.

I cannot think when we had the last "proven" coach at Wigan.

If you are asking why Millward failed, the main reason is poor man management skills and a lack of respect, and i would say that is a major reason why Noble is also failing, added to a style of play that the players clearly cannot get enthused about, motivated to play, and the fact the tactics clearly do not inspire confidence in the coach.

I have to ask if we continue in the current form do you or Brett think we will make the top 4? It seems to be something you are clinging onto, at the moment we are potentially looking realistically at 1 or 2 wins in the first 6 matches, which even early doors would give us a huge task to turnover, especially when we have played too of the weaker teams at home and lost.

Would you like to elaborate on that please friend??

I heard a strong rumour that Nobby said Mc D's was better than KFC, this lead to Feka pulling a weapon on Nobby.

Ever since there has been an uneasy feel around the KFC in Wigan. I hate nobby for this. I think cos this is 100% true we should riot against nobby in wickerman fashion.

You appear to have forgotten the job Millward did for Leigh, Jonh. If your criteria is success at various clubs, that will be a very small list.

You have finally lost the plot.

I have to agree with Jimmy

Noble did more than maintain Bradford as a force after Elliots one decent year. He took them to 5 Grand Finals in a row, World Club Challenges on the back of limited previous on field success - its noticable how they have gone after he has left too.

Millward did a very good job at a couple of clubs at Leigh he took them from bottom of the table to just missing out on SL in the Grand Final. At Saints we look hopeless in 1998 under McRae, mugged Bradford in 1999 under Hanley under Millward we were far more dominant SL 2000, 2002 WCC, 2 CC this was until he brought it all crashing down - i think that was more the problem at Wigan it was too late his ego had took over after the sacking.

To me its more wanting different things - the coach wants to play one direction and the players (and fans) want to see a different brand of rugby. Its going to take some strong man management to get his point across.

Its a negligible stat after 3 games but of the 4 teams to have played 3 games Wigan have vastly less runs from dummy half (even less than Huddersfield who've only played 2). I'm not advocating running from dummy half at every opportunity as it can be seriously boring. But doing it seldomly means you are easier to read & defend against & are less likely to get a roll on from a scoot & quick PTB - something that gives your forwards automatic momentum as they have to move to keep up.

That said win your next 3-4 games & things will look at lot rosier

Why because i do not think success at 1 club is enough to call them a proven coach?

Using Millward as an example were he a proven coach why is he having to serve his dues back in Australia?

There are very few "proven" coaches about in England, Kear is one, off the top of my head i am struggling to find another.

Anderson i think after his spell at Saints could lay claim to this. Tony Smith perhaps.

The thing that proves a coach is there ability to be a success at more than 1 club. A 1 club coach is usually sat very well in the comfort zone at 1 club, once he is taken out of that system the challenge is to adapt to the new systems and evlove with the game, work with what you have that you may not always want. This proves an ability to coach not following a blueprint.

Coaching is a fluid art, not a rigid one.

Football is littered with proven coaches as is the NRL, but in the UK there are very very few maily because of there lack of options.

I do not necessarily think it is essential to recruit a "proven" coach as there are so few about but i do think that it is essential to recruit a coach that has shown ability to adapt and evolve while they develop. Millwards chance to prove himslef as a coach came at Wigan he failed, Noble's chance has come at Wigan and as yet he is not there, especially when you consider his time at the healm of GB.

Classic humour from you kenny!!Clueless.