Who were the second rowers for Penrith on Saturday?
Totally non existent.
Big daft n zero brains. A typical Aussie forward. I’d exclude Yeo from that bunch.
I’d take Farrell in a heartbeat before either of them.
Penrith the world’s best ever team were bereft of any rugby on Saturday. I don’t give a flying shoite about early season rugby for the amount of possession they had they were pretty useless. I’d put Cleary at the top of list on Saturday for being pretty useless. Has never had a half decent game in the UK. Maybe he’s so arrogant he couldn’t be d or maybe he just isn’t that good. He’s never done it over here so maybe he’s the Aussie version of Farrell internationally.
There go

Martin had an excellent game, he is a quality player.

I fully agree with your assessment Jon.

What did he do better than Farrell?

Nothing. None of the Aussie forwards were better than Farrell on the night.

Overall agree with John but I also agree that he maybe should have been given more of a shot at international level, but his time has passed now and I think the teams selected now have to have an eye on the future generation and world cup(s)

While I’m in the camp of saying Faz has been robbed of a good international career and he would’ve been a fine player in that environment (used properly-80 mins every game and not 15/20 mins here and there, as he only ever got), I do think his time has gone. Guys like KPP, Walters, Batchelor, Nicholson, Nsemba etc are the ones I expect to take it forward, alongside John Bateman over the next few years. A couple are ready now and a couple I expect to get to that level in time.

The England backrow looks in good shape for the future. I think we need a couple of top class front rowers to come through as I don't see too many on the horizon of the same calibre of Graham, Walmsley, Hill and the Burgess family.

The elephant in the room with the English national side is how it will work when the tackle height rule changes next year.

There are loads of young props who could make the step. The issue they have is that they’re not getting the chance to build their reputations in games against Australia or New Zealand, so it’s difficult to know if they’re up to it. If 2 or 3 of those can step up and develop to that top level, I think we look pretty well set. The backline from 1-7 looks as good as I can remember for a long time.

The elephant in the room comment I agree with. Any good work could be undone as we won’t be playing the same sport anymore.

Who are you thinking of? I think there are some young props with some potential but no slam dunks atm for me - most have hurdles to overcome. Havard has been mentioned for a few years now but he'll need to overcome injuries and inconsistency , Oledski the same, Delaney possibly but maybe lacks a bit of size and isn't he more of a backrower?

I agree with you in that none scream out that they could be the next Graham, Sam Burgess etc but without those internationals against Australia and New Zealand, you do struggle to really see who has that bit of something extra in them. I think the issue we’ve had in the last decade is that our best props have gone to Oz and then where guys like Graham and Burgess had people like Peacock and Fielden to go against, the young props here haven’t had Graham, Burgess x3 and so on to test themselves against. Alex Walmsley has been the biggest challenge and I think guys here like Byrne and Havard have improved but it’s too few and far between challenges like that.

I like Havard, Byrne and Dupree here, as well as Harvie Hill (although he’s a couple of years behind). Lees and Delaney at Saints are two more. I’m a big fan of Holroyd at Leeds but injuries are impacting him and Oledzki is much the same. Walters might play at prop and he really looks like somebody who could thrive in international rugby. I just think until they get the chance, we won’t really know how good they could be. I think there is plenty of talent knocking about but not enough opportunity to push them.

As a saints fan it’s impossible to dislike the guy. This was compounded before the WCC when he was an absolute legend with my daughters, posing for photos and genuinely seemed interested in what they had to say. Complete opposite to another big name Wigan player on that day but hey, all teams have them.

When it’s time for him to go I hope he gets the send off he deserves

I didn’t say he did anything better than Farrell, you said that he was non-existent but that is not true.

Not seen the stats but I would guess he made more yards and his contact was very good on the night.

Harry Smith certainly knew he’d been in a game.

I actually think Martin is a bit like the NRL’s version of Farrell maybe not the biggest (but still a decent size) but his work ethic and attitude is where he really excels, does the stuff others don’t like to do, very tough.

Looking at the next generation on second-rows coming through at the moment in the NRL there are some absolute monsters who I think will be looking to challenge for rep shirts including Martins over the next season or 2.

To be honest,they all prob made more yards in that game.