FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Does the club need a reality check? |
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123.jpg No trees were harmed during the creation of this post.
However, a number of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
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Saint94 wrote "Every team is in your feckin shadow....we all know." - Amen to that, brother
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Saddened! wrote "We've got the worst backline in the competition, bar possibly London and Wakey. I'd swap our 1-7 with Salford in a heartbeat.":123.jpg |
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| For me, what we lack most is 2 extra coaches - Both of which we've had before and lost/given up.
The first is obvious - A full-time replacement attacking coach.
We've played at our best when we had Briers/Deacon coaching the halves.
The second is a short(ish) term specialist kicking coach.
I know that we have a kicker joining us for next year, but we need someone to both instill confidence in Harry and to train at least 1 more player to be a decent backup kicker, in case of injuries/suspensions.
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| Quote: Pie Eyed "For me, what we lack most is 2 extra coaches - Both of which we've had before and lost/given up.
The first is obvious - A full-time replacement attacking coach.
We've played at our best when we had Briers/Deacon coaching the halves.
The second is a short(ish) term specialist kicking coach.
I know that we have a kicker joining us for next year, but we need someone to both instill confidence in Harry and to train at least 1 more player to be a decent backup kicker, in case of injuries/suspensions.'"
Improve coaching, yes.
Massive fans of Tommy and Lockers but straight in as coaches? Peet also, but he is head coach and I think he will be a good coach in time but he needs help. On the positive side Peet picked us up off the floor and we played good rugby and won some silver. Going backwards now. Some promising signings for next year but need at least one metre eater at prop and more faith in the lads coming through.
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| Quote: Pie Eyed "For me, what we lack most is 2 extra coaches - Both of which we've had before and lost/given up.
The first is obvious - A full-time replacement attacking coach.
We've played at our best when we had Briers/Deacon coaching the halves.
The second is a short(ish) term specialist kicking coach.
I know that we have a kicker joining us for next year, but we need someone to both instill confidence in Harry and to train at least 1 more player to be a decent backup kicker, in case of injuries/suspensions.'"
Isn’t Tommy L our attacking coach?
How can we lack a coach we already have?
He isn’t good enough is what you’re saying.
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5733_1599791508.jpeg Unofficially the most boring poster on Cherry and White.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_5733.jpeg |
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| Quote: nathan_rugby "The announced signings aren’t going to improve us that much let’s be honest.
Out
- Singleton, Powell, KPP, King
In
- Chan, Leeming, Walters, Keighran'"
Our recruitment isn’t over, and neither are the departures from the club.
The biggest single short term change to be made is to get French back on the wing and Cust in at 6.
Beyond this season we need to bring in a 6 and let Cust go.
Keighran can play 6 so we may need to bring in a centre.
Whilst there is a hole in my rear Bevan is not a 6.
Miski has been great especially on our early set carries, his highball work has significantly improved too, but defensively in regards positioning he gets it wrong and he lacks the pace to take advantage of the half opportunities.
Ultimately we won’t get the best out of the team with French at 6.
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| Quote: nathan_rugby "The announced signings aren’t going to improve us that much let’s be honest.
Out
- Singleton, Powell, KPP, King
In
- Chan, Leeming, Walters, Keighran'"
You can add Mago and Cust to the departures, and then possibly Isa, Thornley (club needs to be ruthless with these 2 i'm afraid). that must give us some scope for addtional recruits. We have Faz as senior 2nd row, and we need to be planning for him playing less time next year, so either a signing alongside Nsemba or other junior(s) coming through. Thornley can be replaced by one of our kids, if we are planning on Wardle / Keighran being 1st choice centres
Most fans (especially on the warriors fans forum) dont rate Powell or Singleton anyway, so they arent a loss are they, so Leeming and Chan or Walters have to be upgrades, until they have a poor game, and then arent good enough
In reponse to one of the earlier posters we brought Mike Cooper in and to an extent Singleton to be our pack leaders, one hasnt really lived up to the billing and Cooper season cut short through injury. Many fans have said we needed centres for the past 2-3 seasons, we sign 2 and some still arent happy, so what are the club to do
with French and Field we have 2 of the most destructive players in the league, and the challenge is clearly how to get them both in the side, with hands on the ball and retain a functioning team. I think if Cust hadnt been injured, we may have seen a slightly different outcome and French may possibly have stayed on the wing and Miski could have been leaving. However, Miski took his chance, and whilst he hasnt got the speed of French, he does offer a massive return when bringing the ball out from our own end, and has a decent scoring record
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10174_1376908073.png 23 - 20 - 4
Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10174.png |
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| I don't think the club needs a reality check but I agree we need to get back that intensity of the Maguire / Wane era and not accepting defeat easily.
The biggest thing we are missing is leadership on the pitch. When the going gets tough we lose all composure and start giving away dumb penalties, dropping off tackles, sloppy offloads, etc.
You can see it coming a mile off, teams get on a roll against us with a quick play the ball and the un-ravelling escalates quickly. Nobody seems to be directing us to slow things down and tighten it up, it's so predictable and horrible to watch.
We need a calm head to guide us and Farrell, Smith, French & co aren't that guy.
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69704_1656949802.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69704.jpg |
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| Quote: Orrell Lad "I don't think the club needs a reality check but I agree we need to get back that intensity of the Maguire / Wane era and not accepting defeat easily.
The biggest thing we are missing is leadership on the pitch. When the going gets tough we lose all composure and start giving away dumb penalties, dropping off tackles, sloppy offloads, etc.
You can see it coming a mile off, teams get on a roll against us with a quick play the ball and the un-ravelling escalates quickly. Nobody seems to be directing us to slow things down and tighten it up, it's so predictable and horrible to watch.
We need a calm head to guide us and Farrell, Smith, French & co aren't that guy.'"
Now that I agree with.
Our game management is poor in tight, difficult games at times BUT it was under Maguire and Wane at times also.
I don't think there were issues with our defence on Sunday, in fact I thought we were excellent apart from letting SKD offload, but we made four of five strange calls second half which put us under pressure rather than putting more pressure on them culminating in the really strange call to kick early in golden point.
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65656_1708941604.jpg [size=95:2obtgspq]23 LEAGUE TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]21 CHALLENGE CUPS[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]5 WORLD TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[b:2obtgspq][color=#FF0000:2obtgspq][size=100:2obtgspq]SAYS IT ALL REALLY[/size:2obtgspq][/color:2obtgspq][/b:2obtgspq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_65656.jpg |
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "Now that I agree with.
Our game management is poor in tight, difficult games at times BUT it was under Maguire and Wane at times also.
I don't think there were issues with our defence on Sunday, in fact I thought we were excellent apart from letting SKD offload, but we made four of five strange calls second half which put us under pressure rather than putting more pressure on them culminating in the really strange call to kick early in golden point.'"
A good experienced HB would remedy some of that imo. Taking the right options at the right time etc. People have differing opinions on French, but one thing we can all agree on is that he's unorthodox in the way he plays. Is that the right option for what we need? Personally, I don't think so but others will disagree.
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10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
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| Things aren’t as bad as this thread might make you believe IMO but I agree with a lot of points for improvement. The mains ones for me being-
-We need two more experienced and proven quality forwards for next year (if we get get one of them for this year than great)
-We need a steady hand and a natural halfback at 6. The spine is too inexperienced to shoe horn in a second full back at stand off. I’ve been patient-ish with the move but I think I’d be making the change come Saturday.
-The players and Peet need to learn lessons. Peet is young, the spine players are young and days like Sunday can happen but take your medicine and make sure it doesn’t happen next time. If you’re prepared to put a young player on the bench, use him. If you’re in positions to win the game, make sure you’ve practised until it’s second nature how you nail it. When you have the ball on the opposition line, in those conditions, stop going for the glory play and show some patience. The amount of times we threw wild passes or kicked possession away was really poor.
I honestly don’t think we’re too far away from having a fantastic side ‘if’ we can get things right over this next few months.
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icons15f0_files/3441-1022jacare-msnicons.jpg :icons15f0_files/3441-1022jacare-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: sergeant pepper "A good experienced HB would remedy some of that imo. Taking the right options at the right time etc. People have differing opinions on French, but one thing we can all agree on is that he's unorthodox in the way he plays. Is that the right option for what we need? Personally, I don't think so but others will disagree.'"
It’s not just the HB or indeed French is the problem it’s the lack of creativity and power in the pack.
KPP and Mago can offload but for whatever reason they appear to have discarded this from the forwards. Smithies did a lovely offload in the CC final but I don’t think that he has repeated since.
We have no forwards who can punch holes in defences or have the ability to score form relatively close range. We have a pack of defenders who offer very little to our attack and the one forward who can run through gaps is starting to show that time may be catching up with him.
It is fixable but some of the signings so far don’t even start to fix the issues. Not sure where we are going to get a HB from unless we pay a transfer fee for say Croft. If we did that I assume that either French or Field would have to depart?
With good players in the squad such as Smith, Smithies, Field, O’Neil, Havard and French we have the seeds to develop a really good team. The next few signings will determine if we go from a competitive hard working team to the team to beat if other teams want to win trophies. I suspect with the cap and juggling quota spots it could be 2025 before we have the right balance within the squad.
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69704_1656949802.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69704.jpg |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "The players and Peet need to learn lessons. Peet is young, the spine players are young and days like Sunday can happen but take your medicine and make sure it doesn’t happen next time. If you’re prepared to put a young player on the bench, use him. If you’re in positions to win the game, make sure you’ve practised until it’s second nature how you nail it. When you have the ball on the opposition line, in those conditions, stop going for the glory play and show some patience. The amount of times we threw wild passes or kicked possession away was really poor. '"
That's the big one for me. Do we learn from the mistakes of Sunday or just rinse and repeat.
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icons15f0_files/3441-1022jacare-msnicons.jpg :icons15f0_files/3441-1022jacare-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "Things aren’t as bad as this thread might make you believe IMO but I agree with a lot of points for improvement. The mains ones for me being-
-We need two more experienced and proven quality forwards for next year (if we get get one of them for this year than great)
-We need a steady hand and a natural halfback at 6. The spine is too inexperienced to shoe horn in a second full back at stand off. I’ve been patient-ish with the move but I think I’d be making the change come Saturday.
-The players and Peet need to learn lessons. Peet is young, the spine players are young and days like Sunday can happen but take your medicine and make sure it doesn’t happen next time. If you’re prepared to put a young player on the bench, use him. If you’re in positions to win the game, make sure you’ve practised until it’s second nature how you nail it. When you have the ball on the opposition line, in those conditions, stop going for the glory play and show some patience. The amount of times we threw wild passes or kicked possession away was really poor.
I honestly don’t think we’re too far away from having a fantastic side ‘if’ we can get things right over this next few months.'"
I agree with the vast majority of that. We are still light years ahead of where we were under Lam.
I still think we are going to struggle this year for silverware but Saints appear to have some serious injuries and that may limit their ability to land the GF this year.
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10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
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| Quote: sergeant pepper "A good experienced HB would remedy some of that imo. Taking the right options at the right time etc. People have differing opinions on French, but one thing we can all agree on is that he's unorthodox in the way he plays. Is that the right option for what we need? Personally, I don't think so but others will disagree.'"
Our inability to just build pressure and stay patient in the opposition 20 is a real killer for us. The amount of wild cut out passes we're throwing needs to stop, especially in conditions like those on Sunday. The game in the wet should be really simple. Complete high and try and play the game at their end and make them defend their line. If you get to the end of a set in the opposition 10, then try and force a repeat set and repeat, until they switch off. Harry Smith needs to improve in that regard but I give him leeway given his age/experience and the weight on his shoulders, minus a natural halfback partner. He's a fine kicker from hand all over the field, bar in that last 10-20 metres.
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| Quote: Itchy Arsenal "I agree with the vast majority of that. We are still light years ahead of where we were under Lam.
I still think we are going to struggle this year for silverware but Saints appear to have some serious injuries and that may limit their ability to land the GF this year.'"
There is frustration there this year, I can't lie and the main reason is that the title is up for grabs. It's wide open and I still don't rule us out because even Saints have problems and I don't think any side is anything like being unbeatable. We're going to need to work the 6 position out and we're going to need to get Havard and Ellis on the field together, without any injuries to other big players in the pack like Faz and Smithies but if we can do that, nobody scares the life out of me. I think our big aim now has to be to finish 3rd at worst and avoid a trip over to France in the play offs (presuming they finish top). I wouldn't rule beating anybody out in a Grand Final but a trip to France is a different kettle of fish.
Saturday is huge IMO for the chances of a top 2 finish and for confidence. We can't let them come here and want it more than us. They have eyes on a cup final, they have no hooker and we need to beat them to the punch early in the game.
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65656_1708941604.jpg [size=95:2obtgspq]23 LEAGUE TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]21 CHALLENGE CUPS[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]5 WORLD TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[b:2obtgspq][color=#FF0000:2obtgspq][size=100:2obtgspq]SAYS IT ALL REALLY[/size:2obtgspq][/color:2obtgspq][/b:2obtgspq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_65656.jpg |
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| Could Kyle Flanagan be an option at 6? Like Sutton, he's apparently on the outer at the dogs. Probably not as experienced as we'd like, but he's got potential still.
Funnily enough, when you compare his NRL experience and career to that of Croft, there's plenty of similarities - both have played around the same number of games. Both highly rated youngsters who faltered after big moves (Croft at Brisbane and KF at the Roosters). KF is the same age as Croft was when he moved to Salford etc.
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