It's the possible other disruptions that come too like moving a SR to centre all season or wings to fullback etc. Granted it doesn't look like Woolf uses the same bingo machine Lam used to so that may not be an issue for them.

I've never bought into their depth and again today proves it and like I say when they come fishing on here, it's easy to drip feed a kid into a winning side with first teamers all round him.

Knowles is not the best player in the league. Not even close. He's not even the best player at Saints.

I like him and he’s certainly up there IMO as one of the best few players in the league. Wilkins comments about him and Lockers were ridiculous but what I will say about Knowles is that like Lockers, he isn’t a player to judge by stats. He just brings an intensity and an aura that raises other players standards.

Difference this last few seasons for Saints was two now one very good prop. Even then he also benefited off Walmsley.
The rest are much the same as the other top four or so teams. It's a lot easier to shine off a player who knocks out the equivalent of two decent props yardage week on week on his own. Take that away they would just be in the mix with the rest nothing more, some of the lads building reputations I'm still not convinced.

I’d still back Saints to beat us even without Walmsley.

Agreed

I think we’re kidding ourselves if we think Saints success revolves around one man. They’ve built a culture and instilled a desire in their players nobody can match at the moment.

If they lost Walmsley for the season, yes it would bring them back to the pack a little bit I’d still back them to win the big one at Old Trafford. If they do ever have an injury ‘crisis’ and lose 5 or 6, well that could be a different story.

He's a good player for sure but nowhere near where he's being talked up to. Not even close to Walmsley for example. Can you point me to a single game where he's been 'unplayable' in the way Sculthorpe, Farrell or O'Loughlin were at times during their careers or in the way Field, French or even Connor (for all his faults) can be now?

He's a good player in a good team which helps his game massively as he can just go about his work with no pressure or need to create anything.

He's one of the best back rowers in the comp but beyond that, massively overhyped. How can a steady Eddie, however well he fulfills that role, be considered 'the best player in the league' (sic). It's utter madness.

He’s not that type, I get that but I just think in an era were Saints are winning everything based on the fact their intensity is through the roof and he absolutely leads that puts him right up there.

Maybe I’d class him as the ‘most important’ player in the league, rather than the best one but he’s a fantastic player for my money and is young enough to take it up a level or two yet.

He's not even that though NK. Walmsley is more important to Saints. Field is currently more important to us. He's a good player who is being bigged up beyond his standing.

This talk comes on the back of Saints being dominant. When Bateman had a similar forward to Walmsley (Papalii) in front of him he ripped the NRL apart. Can you see Knowles doing the same over there? He simply doesn't have the game to. That's taking nothing away from him as he does his own game extremely well.

In fact I'm struggling to find many instances in the history of superleague where a back rower was regarded as the best (or most important if you like) player in the comp. If there was, I'm sure they brought more to the table than a solid game and intensity.

Let's put it this way. We both know that put him in our side and not a single Saints fan would be calling him the best player in the league, or even close. The frightening thing is neither would any of our fans! I understand praise where it's due and calling Walmsley the best prop in the league or possibly even the world would have some merit. Calling Knowles a good player or among the best back rowers in the comp is also justified. Anything more than that, at this stage at least, just isn't.

"It wasn't something we've seen coming. We trained pretty well this week."

Woolf post match interview, yep, they're still the team to beat but that's cracked me up, sure I've heard it before somewhere

He’s right up there with Walmsley in terms of importance to Saints IMO. He’s isn’t flashy, particularly eye catching etc but does things that you just can’t measure. He isn’t in Lockers league in terms of when Lockers was at his best yet but I recall Lockers getting dogs abuse across the league at 24-25.

I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying and maybe it’s the quality of the league that puts him right up there (IMO). I’m interested to see how he goes in that World Cup. I see Aussie 13’s like Radley, Finucane or Murray lauded and he’s every bit as good IMO. I think he’ll prove that but we’ll see.

Just to add to this around Walmsley, I could see him being found out a bit in the World Cup. He was dreadful for GB under Wayne Bennett and I don’t think the big Aussie, Kiwi, Tongan etc packs will find him anything out of the ordinary.

Yesterday's result would suggest otherwise

Just one further point on this; I don't buy into this 'he does things that can't be measured' malarky. Greatness doesn't hide under a Bushel. A great player may well do things above and beyond the obvious like motivation, organisation etc but they ALWAYS do plenty that can be measured too. If justification for a player is 'yes, he doesn't do anything flashy or eye-catching but he does lots of work in the background that can't be seen' then he is a solid pro and nothing more. When Knowles starts to take games by the scruff of the neck rather than quietly going about his business then, and only then, will I take claims like 'best in the league' seriously.

I've said many times that Saints have benefitted from a low injury count and a uneven competition over recent years. That's not to say they haven't been the best...they clearly have. But faced with an injury crisis the likes of other teams have had to endure and they wouldn't be sitting on a 3peat right now. That much I'm certain of.

The only time we've beat them of late he didn't play