I have just pointed out 3 areas where Union excel at over League and its all from personal experience.

Do you have any attendance stats for the premiershop in this country?

Overall I agree with you, its the tinkering around each year and number of smaller rules where you don't need them that is my annoyance.

Well, as I've said before, the way some fans seem to get their knickers in a twist about relatively minor rules tweaks like the ball-steal rule (one way or another) seems often way over the top to me. Yes, constant rules tweaks can be a very minor annoyance, but don't tell me it's enough to 'fall out of love with the sport', or some such.

It's a very odd hill to want to die on.

2019 Union Premiership Average Attendances, excluding home and european cup games. (Last non Covid Season)

Wasps *32,000 Ricoh Stadium, Coventry
Bristol Bears 27,000 (First Season) Ashton Gate Football Stadium, Bristol
Leicester Tigers 25,849
Gloucester 16,155
Northampton Saints 15,249
Harlequins 14,800
Exeter Chiefs 12,921
Sale Sharks 12,000
Worcester Warriors 11,489 Sixfields Football Stadium, Northampton
Newcastle Falcons 10,200
Saracens 10,000

Bear in mind that away supporters have further to travel than in League for most games.

* Many of Wasps supporters actually live in London.


Hope this helps.

Surely they are the ground capacities?

**Edit** They look to be. Sale averaged just over 6,000 in their last full season in front of crowds (2018/19). Wasps around 19k and a couple like Saracens and Worcester around 7,000. There are some really impressive averages but tough to get a full picture, as from what I saw, a team like Harlequins included a 75,000 crowd at a final in their averages.

I found this....seems more accurate. Wasps did get one match with 31000 fans

Tigers - 19,888
Wasps - 17,975
Bristol - 16,413
Bath - 14,024
Gloucester - 13,996
Saints - 12,471
Harlequins - 12,391
Exeter - 10,964
Saracens - 8,622
Worcester - 7,848
Newcastle - 7,440
Sale Sharks - 6,365

Also try here, can see by season total number of fans for the season rlhttps://rd.premiershiprugby.com/stats/attendance.php?includeref

Leicester Tigers 228,865
Harlequins 212,435
Bath Rugby 201,977
Bristol Bears 179,827
Wasps 177,761
Northampton Saints 169,369
Gloucester Rugby 158,158
Exeter Chiefs 144,446
Saracens 143,845
Newcastle Falcons 100,826
Worcester Warriors 91,162
Sale Sharks 72,443

Looks like domestic union a lot better supported than league.

French Rugby League has always been in the shadow of Union like our game is in our country. It is only played in the South of Franch in the same way that the majority of our game is played in the North of England while Union at a professional level in both countries is a nationwide game.

French Rugby League today is in a far stronger position than what it was a few years ago, as a result of two clubs playing in the English leagues. Even teams in the French Leagues now have players from down under playing for them which was not the case when all their players were French.

The only problem with French teams in our game is the absence of away supporters, but is it any different that having a team like Toronto Wolfpack in our leagues?

It would appear that you are right, but the fact remains that since Union went professional and created the Premiership, their attendances are far higher than what they were when they were amateur clubs and played just friendlies.

But in the lower divisions, their game is not as rosey as they make out in the media.

At the time, that their game went professional, I attended a wedding at Teignmouth RU in Devon, where I got talking to the club chairman who told me that as a result of their game going professional, players of the club which was about the same level as Orrell RU wanted expenses to travel from all over Devon to play for their club when previously like our amateur clubs, they travelled for nothing. A financial burden which he claimed small clubs like Teignmouth RU could not afford.

p.s. Just for interest, on the wall of their clubhouse was a signed picture of the winger Jim Fallon who played for Teignmouth RU, prior to going to Bath RU and then signed by Leeds Rhinos.

Ru in France has only been top dog since the end of the second world war, there is a reason the French RU is referred to as the Vichys, we will not change that now, but there is an appetite in France for RL, the biggest mistake sky made was putting the French team in Paris at the start of super league, it should have been in Toulouse.

regarding the away fans, how many times have Wigan not opened the away stand because its not worth it, Wakefield etc only bring a handful of fans, and as someone else posted, as a club, is it not better to try and grow your own fanbase by 400 rather than rely on away support?

What strikes me straight off when compared to union is the geographical spread of their teams. People talk about the south east but there are only really 2 teams there. 3 in the SW, several in the midlands and a couple in the north. They have also, cleverly IMO moved teams and concentrated in areas away from significant football dominance, teams moving out of London for example.

i've posted similar previously about away fans. Apart from Saints and Wire, its not normally worth opening the North Stand, and i'd probably stick them at North side of East / West and leave the North shut, and as any club, shouldnt be relying on a small number of away fans to top up their coffers. Its not like the premier league where there are regularly 4-5k+ fans attending away games, and you are talking in excess of £150k per game just from away fans (appreciate that is nothing really compared to the TV deal money they rake in)

Now if we were regularly getting 2-3k away fans attending games, that would be a different conversation as it becomes financially worth it

From a Wigan perspective i think we need to see a plan for the next 5-10 years as to where IL sees the club going. What are his plans to grow the fan base back up to an average of 12k / 15k etc? How is he going to attract fans who have moved on from the game for whatever reason? how is he going to attract new fans to the club etc etc The last time we really saw an increase in attendance and atmosphere at the stadium was when we were threatened with relegation

Exactly, a reason why atendances have declined, no longer the same number of supporters including our own going to away games, especially those played on the opposite side of the Penninies on Thursday and Friday Nights due to the horrendus travelling along the M61 in the evening rush hour. Only games in the evening on the same side of the Pennines now attract anything like a proper attendance. How many coaches from Mayfair now go to away games across the Pennines for a evening game compared to how many used to go on a Sunday?

When the games were played on a Sunday, far more more supporters travelled as they made a day of it by going earlier and enjoying the atmosphere of the pub scene which in turn created a better match atmosphere at a game. Now, all supporters prefer to just watch home games on a evening on the excuse that they have other things to do on a Sunday and watch away games on television.

Today, a game at the DW Stadium is now for many, just about rushing to get home from work, rushing to the stadium, no time to socialise which in turns results in no real atmosphere at most games like there used to be prior to games being switched from Sundays in order to accommodate Sky Sports policy of no Rugby League games on a Sunday.

Why do you think supporters of the Latics and other football clubs travelled in bigger numbers for Saturday and Sunday Afternoon games?