Obsessed

Your sadness is greatly appreciated in our world.

My observations were similar Jukesy. I didn't go into the detail you have but your findings pretty much back up my impressions. I'm not usually one for bagging individual players but I think we're at the point where Clubb is actually detrimental to the team when he plays. I think it is worth adding to your stats that the quality of what little work he does is not even good. I watched him for a spell at the match and he's picking and choosing when he's making himself available as an option. Very noticeable that you make a similar point regarding the bulk of his work being in a 5 minute spell when we're inside the opposition 10. Not exactly doing the hard yards!

I'd also like to compare and contrast with Lockers as I'm getting sick of reading (more on the other site than here to be fair) that he isn't contributing as he should be. It should be clear to anyone with even a modicum of rugby nous that the quality of O'Loughlin's work is still on another level to most players on the field. He's the only one, for example, who can consistently play the game right in the teeth of the opposition line with barely even a risk of getting tackled. His slowing of the opposition ruck is outstanding and that's before we get to his range of passing and link play.

Sure, we have to manage his game time these days, but when he's on he's still the player he always has been. Clubb, on the other hand...

So first of all - My criticism strangely enough over the past 3 weeks is not with Clubb per se - It's the fact that in Rounds 1&2 he played Clubb with a clearly not ready Burgess & 3 Youngsters - We got away with it week 1
Week 2 was a disaster - After losing Burgess (And Powell) to then include Clarke/Bullock & Greenwood in the 21 and not select any in the 17 was Mind Boggling!
And when you then are relying on a Senior Prop that does on average 20mins - for 6 carries - 10 Tackles with 3 of them being misses it just leaves too much for the 3-4 young lads to pick up IMO

I've criticised Clubb's effort/contribution over the past 2 seasons and after the Nou Camp debacle to find out we'd given him 2 more years was, well, Mind Boggling again!

But if we did have 3-4 other Senior props banging out Big minutes i.e. Flower/Burgess/Bullock/Clarke I could accept 10min Tony to a point
When were missing 2 of them through injury and we don't select the other 2!!!!

But to the point in Bold
That's a great observation and believe it or believe it not something I was discussing Saturday night whilst sinking a few.
I mentioned that watching an individual is different to watching a team - And on the night I'd picked up on his positioning and how he didn't seem to be around the action, watching it back and it's clear.
Defensively he's nearly always defending at the side of the referee behind the ruck, He gets to the Tackle just as it's being completed and is 3rd man in or he is close to the tackle then retreats behind the ruck again.
And in attack he just doesn't seem to be an option, very rarely putting himself either side of the ruck and even when he does look like an option he gives the impression he isn't as his hands on dummy runs aren't ready to receive the ball.

So glad you mentioned Lockers - And don't even get me started on some of them on the other site especially the latest one about him being glad he's injured and hoping it may end his career! - It is like watching a master class.
3 years ago when Leigh were in SL (I think you can work out how this came about) I saw the Leigh video the night after, of the game at our place with 2 of the Leigh coaching staff, before we started I praised Williams & Farrell and the reply from them was Lockers - And sitting with them as they were watching the game and pointing out what was causing them problems over & over again they were commenting on how they were being picked apart by Lockers and in their words how "Every tiny, little facet of the game that goes unnoticed he excels in". As you say how he straightens the attack up leaving room to play next PTB, taking the ball into the line and attracting 2 x defenders and still being able as a pivot to find his outside option who then has space to play etc.
Listen, were not too far away from him calling it a day, and I heard someone going on about another "Myth" from those that want him to retire (As they've been wishing for the last 5 years). This thing that he's giving 3/4 penalties a game away - He isn't, he's averaging around 1 per game & with the number of times he's involved then it's a fair enough ratio.
Averaging 30 tackles and 15/16 carries a game and then added to that his distribution work and his contribution is still fantastic.

How many of those bagging Lockers will be saying we miss him next season? Fans don't rate him, but every single player he has played with and against and every single coach does. Who are you going to believe?

Our scouting network needs an overhaul especially when it comes to forwards.

We've got the best young forward pack coming through that I have ever seen at Wigan!!

Byrne Havard Kilner Rushton. Give it 3 or 4 years and these boys will our front 4 and will be ripping it up. Provided the nrl dont come looking which they may do as i am sure they will already be looking now at them.

How many times have we heard you say that about young players?

Wasnt Ryan Hampshire going to be the next Andrew Johns at one point?

Whilst to the untrained eye it does seem like Clubb is our first scapegoat of the season it isn't without warrent. He just isn't doing enough of value. Like a few on here I made a mental note at the match to follow his movements in his first period, I got the feeling that he was trying to 'look busy/upping his stats' without doing the hard graft.

Low minutes.
Few drives.
Low metre gains.
Missed tackles.
3rd/4th Man in.

I was pretty livid with him at the time, surprised he even came on towards the end, didn't expect it. I think he made a decent drive during that time.

Now it was only when I got home I managed to catch a view of the dressing room at half time where a physio was working hard on his heavily strapped leg. Now I'm going to try and give him some benefit of the doubt here........ Is he match fit? Is he struggling with an ongoing injury?

Or.... Is he being instructed to play this way?
Or.....Is he simply not putting the effort in?

To me, I don't think he's fit and needs some time off.

It doesn't help when you tell the coach who to pick and where to play them like Hampshire did

That Sam Tomkins fella did okay didn't he?
That Farrell lad who has played a few games for us these past ten years, he's pretty good?
Or what about that Gildart boy? Or the even younger Marshall kid, he's not bad either.

Then there's young Williams who's bagged himself an NRL contract along with that Ryan Sutton lad?

Then there's Manfredi before he unluckily got himself seriously injured.


I could go on........

Ryan Hampshire could have been anything he wanted to be by now, playing at a top club and winning trophies had it not been for rank bad advice with silly demands being whispered into his ears by those closest to him.

Exactly Jukesy. I was dismayed at Clubb on Thursday. It was chalk and cheese when Bullock and Clark came on. I know we can't know what's on his mind but, from a distance at least, it looks deliberate and was really highlighted when those two came on as, all of sudden, we had forward options around the ruck. Surely it can't be a coincidence?

Spot on with Lockers too. I despair that there's still fans out there who can't, or more probably won't, see what he brings. I was going to post a reply to the post you mention but all I could think of to say was "are you sure you're facing the right way when you watch the games?" I can't think of any other rational explanation. I didn't dare address the disgusting comments regarding hoping his injury would end his career or I'd have picked up a ban.