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I'm going to disagree as I think the Props are playing to a game plan set out by Wane. We rely on our outside backs to make yards and our Props to damage the opposition in defence.

Tautai comes on and causes mayhem for 10 minutes then is pretty anonymous. Flower is never going to rack up big yards due to his size but he is an absolute machine in defence.

FPN probably underperforming but I expect his stats willl surprise a few when they are published.

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Even defensively they've not been great recently. Sutton was caught out at least once yesterday, Frank was at fault for not pushing over for Saints' last try and Cas had a field day going up the middle last week.

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I think the props are struggling partly due to our injuries elsewhere.

We rely a lot on the outside backs to come in and do some of the carrying for the big lads, and with the injuries and unfamiliar personnel in these backs, maybe the props have not been supported as much?

Tautai has certainly been the stand out prop in the side though. Really making yards and driving it up with aggression.

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well Ive just looked at the stats and a few things stand out from the pack:

Faz - his stats are by far the most consistent - tackles, yards. errors - good in all
JT - poor all round. poor yards, high errors, lots of missed tackles.

Props
TT shading everyone in all categories.
FPN good yards but lots of errors and missed tackles.
Clubb and Flower - distinctly average all round.
Sutton - solid but not making many yards.
Navarette - good promise. Better all round that TC and BF.

I think those figures pretty much bear up what people have seen on the field.

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Quote: ShortArse "well Ive just looked at the stats and a few things stand out from the pack

The bashing of the forwards is a bit unfair. You say JT has been "poor all round" but he's fourth top tackler in the team and second in the off-loads. Yes he may not be making quite as good yards but you need to remember he's been playing alongside very young centres so the defensive effort is not to be overlooked.

In terms of Clubb, I've thought when he's come off the bench he's been superb. But due to injuries he's been playing much longer minutes which in combination with his consistent back troubles makes it quite unfair to be slating him in my opinion. Imagine someone like Walmsley having to play the number of minutes that Clubb has been lately, wouldn't be as effective as he is when he plays in stints.

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Quote: WARRIOR5 "The bashing of the forwards is a bit unfair. You say JT has been "poor all round" but he's fourth top tackler in the team and second in the off-loads. Yes he may not be making quite as good yards but you need to remember he's been playing alongside very young centres so the defensive effort is not to be overlooked.

In terms of Clubb, I've thought when he's come off the bench he's been superb. But due to injuries he's been playing much longer minutes which in combination with his consistent back troubles makes it quite unfair to be slating him in my opinion. Imagine someone like Walmsley having to play the number of minutes that Clubb has been lately, wouldn't be as effective as he is when he plays in stints.'"

Firstly I'm not a Clubb basher but what has he done this season that has been superb? He has been poor and at times has done virtually nothing whilst on the pitch. If this has been due to injury fair enough but where on earth have you been able to identify superb play?
I like Clubb for his commitment and endeavour but this season he has been non existent in terms of performance.
Props aside TT and Sutton are not good enough at the moment. Time will tell if this is due to injury, capability or perhaps tactics.
Options on the 6th tackle are perhaps more of a worry at present

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[b:3rwwi1cz][color=#800000:3rwwi1cz]WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024 SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018 & 2023 CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024 LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020 & 2023 ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018 & 2019 WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018 BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011 & 2012 CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012 [/color:3rwwi1cz][/b:3rwwi1cz]:



Quote: Itchy Arsenal "Firstly I'm not a Clubb basher but what has he done this season that has been superb? He has been poor and at times has done virtually nothing whilst on the pitch. If this has been due to injury fair enough but where on earth have you been able to identify superb play?
I like Clubb for his commitment and endeavour but this season he has been non existent in terms of performance.
Props aside TT and Sutton are not good enough at the moment. Time will tell if this is due to injury, capability or perhaps tactics.
Options on the 6th tackle are perhaps more of a worry at present'"



Re: Clubb, rumours of a lower back problem all season, which he's played through up until last week. Unconfirmed reports that he could be out for a while. Could this still be repercussions from last years crusher tackle?

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Quote: Itchy Arsenal "Firstly I'm not a Clubb basher but what has he done this season that has been superb? He has been poor and at times has done virtually nothing whilst on the pitch. If this has been due to injury fair enough but where on earth have you been able to identify superb play?
I like Clubb for his commitment and endeavour but this season he has been non existent in terms of performance.
Props aside TT and Sutton are not good enough at the moment. Time will tell if this is due to injury, capability or perhaps tactics.
Options on the 6th tackle are perhaps more of a worry at present'"


Up until the Centurions game his stats in terms of average gain and tackles were impressive. Stats aside, his aggression in defence off the bench is usually very effective and he and others really stood up in the WCC against some very strong opposition, which I would say was superb.

From the Centirions game onwards the injury crisis kicked in and our middles have been paying much bigger minutes. Plus they have not had the luxury of Budgie and Gildart (our biggest metre makers) running from dummy half, which is bound to affect performances.

I'm not saying there hasn't been poor performances but I think people should consider the other factors before laying into our players.

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We should be pulling out the stops to re-sign Tautai, he is fantastic, we should then be looking at replacing FPN, Flower and Clubb if things don't get better, bring in a decent NRL player, a SL player and try to find a big rawbone Union player, DAVE TAYLOR would be nice

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Quote: MattyB "Re
I believe his injury is to his kidney which hopefully isn't too serious however, I got told yesterday that he is out for 2 months.
I like Clubb and wish him a speedy and safe recovery.
He certainly hasn't been the same since the incident has he?

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RICHARDS IS SUPERMAN!!!! Wire_91 wrote:its your first final in about 8 years and now you ravin and rantin about it F**k off, and ill be going old trafford tomoz cheering on the saints and ill be writing on this forum givin you loads of shi* when your drying you eyes and the wire fan will be here handing out the tissues in the thousands, thats if you do take that many fans cause now it looks like its your fans who have jumped on the band wagon now your in a final, this time last year there was only 1000 people in the jjb and now its fillin up cause youve won the league hahaha proper true supporters you are:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_27542.jpg



Quote: NSW "Flower - solid as always, he normally comes good business end of the year.

FPN - started slow last year, was really killing it towards the grand final run. Expected big things after a full preseason but he's not impressed yet.

Clubb - hope his injured is okay.

Sutton- impressed today needs more minutes

Tautai - one of our top 3 performers this year. Contract up at the end of the season.

Navarrete - impressive so far with limited action

Breatherton - doesn't seem athletic enough, think Crosby and Sutton at his age were ahead of him.

If we keep the 4 some of Flower, FPN, Tautai and Sutton fit and FPN gets better I'm sure we'll be fine.'"


Anyone else think Wane has had a word with FPN?

After an average first 20 minutes on good Friday, wane only put him back on when the game was seemingly won, after the 3 tries.

Dropped to the bench Monday but performed loads better, much improved.

Sutton was great as was Naverette.

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Quote: NSW "Anyone else think Wane has had a word with FPN?

After an average first 20 minutes on good Friday, wane only put him back on when the game was seemingly won, after the 3 tries.

Dropped to the bench Monday but performed loads better, much improved.

Sutton was great as was Naverette.'"


I've yet to see the Wrecking Ball live up to his nickname, but it's early days so far.

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Quote: NSW "Anyone else think Wane has had a word with FPN?

After an average first 20 minutes on good Friday, wane only put him back on when the game was seemingly won, after the 3 tries.

Dropped to the bench Monday but performed loads better, much improved.

Sutton was great as was Naverette.'"


Yes, agreed. Noticeable that SW was in no hurry to give him a second spell on Friday, I remarked on it at the time.
Better on Monday but still not at Tautai level . Naverette looked very good and certainly deserves more game time.

I hope this talk of us losing TT isn't true.

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[b:3rwwi1cz][color=#800000:3rwwi1cz]WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024 SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018 & 2023 CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024 LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020 & 2023 ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018 & 2019 WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018 BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011 & 2012 CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012 [/color:3rwwi1cz][/b:3rwwi1cz]:



Quote: NSW "Anyone else think Wane has had a word with FPN?

After an average first 20 minutes on good Friday, wane only put him back on when the game was seemingly won, after the 3 tries.

Dropped to the bench Monday but performed loads better, much improved.

Sutton was great as was Naverette.'"



Saw a headline last night (sorry, can't find link) that Tautai himself was the reason he started the game on Monday, put his hand up to SW and he agreed.
Wanted to test himself and also give FPN the chance to come on midway through the match.

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I thought they all put a shift in on Sunday, vast improvement on recent weeks, keep it up please !

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