Faz is 100 per cent a better player at this stage, it's not even arguable. I see your point though, Ward clearly has talent and hopefully he can stay fit next year and we'll see if he's close led the gap on Farrell.

As for the main point, he should be nowhere near the England squad at the moment imo.

Pretty pointless arguing any point really when you'll have an answer for everything. Farrell is a fine player, a better player then Ward without question and has his Harry Sunderkand trophy sat on his mantle piece to back that up as well as inclusions in previous dream teams (when he played more then half a season).

If you go over to the England thread on the VT you'll see that I've praised Ward, Ferres and Hall and defended their inclusions in the squad so it's certainly be not being biased to suggest Faz is a better player then Ward. It isn't even close at the moment (but it probably will be one day).

I wouldn't lose a second's sleep if no Wigan players were picked.

No Farell, Feres or Ward. Navarette starts for France.

Good to see Navarette hammer James Graham in the first half and for scouse Jimmy to spit his dummy out pointing at him.

Mixed bag from Navarette overall. He looks very raw and he's been targeted in attack but he's shown some impressive aggression in defence.

Look I can see why you think farrell is better as he has been consistently good for a few seasons now, but I genuinely believe that a fully fit Ward (and he isn't fully fit atm) has more strings to his bow and I wouldn't swap them. Im not being blindly bias and would happily swap Ablett or Ferres for Bateman. Many Leeds fans believe that Ward should be made captain soon, although I appreciate you haven't seen as much of him as we have.

Btw, I actually didnt want Ward to be picked in the squad as I would rather he had a full preseason under his belt to get his body right and maybe even bulk up a bit more.

This is all irrelevant to the point I was making anyway, regardless of how good Farrell is in SL, he is too skinny to play second row internationally

Aside from the fact that Wards tiny for an international back rower I don't disagree with much of that.

I'm a fan. I actually backed him on your own board about 18 months back when he was taking a panning for being a lad who just defends. He reminds me a little of Sean O'Loughlin in the way he's come in to the first team with a big rep but it'll take time to find his feet. When he does though both Leeds and England will have a fine player on their hands (but for some he won't be flashy enough).

You might have misread some of the comments on our board, I ,like a lot of fans, think he IS 'flashy enough' but isn't been given the licence to play as much as he should. In the academy he was a 6/13 for most of the time.

As for him not being big enough internationally, you might be right but I think players like him and Bateman who aren't the biggest play the game with enough aggression to compensate, unlike say Currie or Farrell

This debate all looks irrelevant anyway because it looks like Ward is either not match fit or not in Bennets plans based on him not laying yesterday, whilst we also seem to be playing Cooper and the burgess twins as back rowers

I didn't mis-read them, he was getting lots of stick with a number of people saying they didn't know where his rep had come from. The comments were that he could defend but that he offered nothing in attack and that reminded me a lot of the stick that Lockers used to take when he first broke in.

You're probably right in that at that point he wasn't given enough of a licence to play but I think there's also an element of confidence. It must be hard as a young player with a huge reputation at academy level to come in and just play your natural game because you don't want to make mistakes. That confidence to play his way has come with games and a bit more experience. Sadly for him he's not played as many games as he would have liked due to injury. I really hope he can get a full season in next year and kick on because he could be a good player for England.

It's great that we will have so many back rowers to choose from in the future.

Currie
Bateman
Whitehead
Ward
Farrel
Hughes

All top players and nobody Can know how a player may progress and allow for dips in form.

I just feel that all round currie and Bateman would be my first choice second row if was available I think both are great going forward send also in defence both capable of keeping much bigger players quiet. But there's a very good argument for any combination of the above. Its been a very long time since there's been that kind of depth in quality were starting to build up internationally hughes has some catching up to do but there's plenty of time for that to happen

Just need to discover a few centres now!

With this current squad:

Lomax
McGil Watkins Sarg Hall
Williams Brown
Jammer Hodgson Hill
Faz Whithead
Sammy Boyle
-------------------
Tom/Taylor
George
Clark
Bateman

Are they supposed to announce a 19 for the NZ game today?

Quote: Grimmy "Are they supposed to announce a 19 for the NZ game today?'" www.totalrl.com/england-make-fiv ... ns-opener/

Quote: Grimmy "Are they supposed to announce a 19 for the NZ game today?'" www.totalrl.com/england-make-fiv ... ns-opener/

Surprised he's dropped Taylor and Percival. Looks like Sarge back at centre then.

Yeah Taylor went well in the France game, bias towards the guys who play against Aus/NZ week in week out in the NRL I suppose. I'd leave out Lomax (Sarge is proven at international level and his workrate will likely prove more useful that Lomax's flashy stuff. Bateman can then play centre, again, workrate and toughness over being flashy) and Gale (At least he's an unknown quantity, I've never seen Widdop do anything at international level). However, I suspect you are correct, with Gale and one of Farrell/Bateman probably missing out.