Of course it's a coincidence. You think one player is responsible for the score of a game?

I complain about the fall off in performance when MM goes off and is interchanged from the bench. It loses us games all season. Sub him with a man already on the field and we win!
Ganson played longer than 20 mins at Salford, the fall off occurred when Flower and Clubb both went off. Salford were a mile better than us in the first 20 anyway and were always going to score points in the last 15 of the half.
There was only one conclusion I drew from the Salford game and that is Salford had their first team out who were very good indeed. Well drilled, well coached and for 65 mins looked by far the fitter of the two teams. Our younger lads were outmuscled and out classed.
We shall see what happens after this pre season v Catalans.

I think the most frustrating thing for me is that every man and his dog can see how much Ben Flower brings to the side. For me it's not a coincidence that his return to form later last year meant the whole side went up another level as well.

Yet we never recruit anyone serious to help him out. How hard can it be to recruit another top level prop that would negate the time when Flower goes off?

I think clubb could do that, i think he is very underrated by a lot of people

In many ways he is, but for me he's a leader and rock in defence.

Whilst his go forward is Ok I don't think it's great either. We need another big meter maker imo.

That's not me belittling anything on the things that Clubb brings to the table either.

Flower and Clubb are very good superleague props. Both perform different roles and they do them well. I agree that they're our two stand out props and the guys behind them need to offer more. I can't help but feel Dom Crosby hasn't kicked on to find the consistency he needs. He can have games were he's fired up and he can be very good but then he just seems to go back in to his shell. I think Mossop is much the same. After those Tautai simply isn't up to the job and Sutton and Bretherton are very young and at this stage you can't rely on either to be first 17 players.

To sum up I think we're one prop short. I said it after the game yesterday and to me it's a glaring issue with the side. Leeds went out and signed Garbutt last season and got Galloway in for this year. They also got Cuthbertson last year who was decent in the NRL but has been a sensation here. He's proof IMO that there are plenty of options out there if we're prepared to go in to the NRL market (which I doubt). If we had room for an international in Ferres then there has to be space for a solid prop.

Spot on.

Hull KR seem to find a decent new prop every year (Clinton, Vella, Paea, Wayman) Guys at London can find a Vea, Salford Tasi and the excellent additions Leeds made.

Sometimes there's no substitute for recruiting a mid level/solid NRL prop who has a bit of hunger and natural size.

Whilst I do agree with your point about Hull KR, we did sign Lima and Pettybourne, which kind of argues the other way. Spending big (fee and wages) on a superstar like Stuart Fielden didn't work too well either (though his effort couldn't be faulted). So it's a tricky one.

I felt at the time that Pettybourne was getting a shirt just because he was an NRL player, when in fact he was poor and not worth his place. He seems to have won another contract at Gold Coast so I'm not sure about NRL journeymen/mid-level props.

We'll see how the likes of Tasi and Dodds go this year at Saints and Wire but they were both burned by Masoe and Asotasi whereas we have maintained some consistency in our squad.

I keep thinking about those young props at the Warriors, like Charlie Gubb and Sam Lisone...

...I'd take Jacob Lillyman though.

Some of our recruitment has been bad and some has been good (Flower, Taylor, Clubb). The thing that stands out like a sore thumb for me is that the Wigan club simply do not produce top class props.

It's a topic that I've often thought about creating a thread on - who was the last great prop to be produced through the Wigan junior system?

Brian McTigue?
Ken Gee?

'Origin forward' Jacob Lilyman...

Hey, I'd have bitten Frank Pritchard's hand off!

For a while we didn't seem to produce any and since we've seen guys like Prescott, Mossop and Crosby come through who are all good(all their day) but not great props. I really like the looks of Sutton buying worry that he seems a bit on the slow side to really develop in to anything better then those three guys.