Don't want to sound like a broken record but for me the majority of this falls at the feet of Smith again. A scrum half should be attacking the line and creating things but he is too predictable and slow near the opposition line but the return of Sam T will increase the intensity in that area tenfold.

On the original subject. Waney is creating a dynasty here and needs to stay. He is blooding a very good young local side and the future looks excellent. I see a mini domination on the cards for us in the near future.

Without doubt he needs to stay, no question.

Next year is career defining however for him. We need a major trophy, and we need to come out of this transitional phase we seem to have fallen into.

We have everything in place to create a generationally dominant team, like Leeds have, and that needs to become a reality next year.

If we don't come away with either the Cup or SL title should and I think will go.

I know it's early but I am genuinely already very excited about 2016 and he has to deliver.

Do you honestly think that Powell is a better coach. Based on what?

Shaun Wane beats Powell on any criterion you care to name (except as a player).

Powell is doing a similar job at Cas to Stuart Raper. Maybe we should learn from history. Because I don't think one Challenge Cup success, which is what Raper achieved, in three seasons is what you'd be looking for from someone who is expected to improve on Shaun Wanes record.

There is nothing that Powell has done that would lead you to expect better than Shaun Wanes achievements.

Pretty sure Raper was here for 2 years and we managed 1 CC and a GF loss (plus another at the end of the season he left).

However I fully agree with jonh.

Powell's teams regularly play far better than the sum of their parts, look at the squad Cas have had the last two years and tell me they should be getting to a cup final or finishing at the top end of the table. If Powell had our resources at his disposal he could do great things IMO

I disagree. Holding a ridiculous opinion like that is easy because it'll never be tested. I can't prove you wrong because Powell will never get a top job. Ask yourself why?

He had the chance to do at Leeds what Waney has done here. And he wasn't up to it.

This Wigan team that Wane is building will be the dominant force in Rugby League over the next five years.

We got knocked out of the cup by two teams having a hot season... We were their cup final.

I wouldn't be too sure about Powell never getting a top job but we shall see. Judging him by the standards he set in 2001 is beyond harsh, he had only just stopped playing! I hope you're right about us being the dominant force but I'd be more convinced if we were winning these finals and not getting knocked out of the cup by lesser sides. Leeds have a bloody good squad with some quality young lads coming through who are already building up vital experience of winning finals. I'm not confident we can top them with Smith, McIlorum and Wane in key positions, particularly once Lockers calls it a day

Neither looked too hot against Leeds in their actual cup final!

And the 2010 side containing Sam, Joel, Hansen, Mossop, Tommy, Goulding etc should have dominated for the last 5 years but didn't. We had the players then to create a dominant side but all of the above moved on. Why won't it happen again?

Simply put nothing is locked in and I'm sick to death of this living for the what's supposedly 24 months on the horizon. The notion that another trophyless season is acceptable because in 12/24/36 months we maybe dominant is fools talk imo.

Delivering success last night was just as important as winning SL next season. There's too much talk and emphasis on the future and not enough attention to the here and now. FWIW that's not all down to Wane some of it lands at the feet of IL

There's always an excuse!

It's Ben Flowers fault. The ref didn't spot a knock on. Both Hull and Cas were in the middle of a purple patch etc etc.

I think people are forgetting that Wigan aren't the only side in the comp. There have been 12 trophies on offer since Wane has been on charge. Wigan have won 3 of them, that's not bad (considering there are 4/5 teams capable of winning trophies it's just right).
Had it not been for one incident last year they'd have one more and this year Leeds were always going to have that fairytale finish. The Leeds side is just as good as Wigan's (On paper and their youngsters) and it's so arrogant to suggest that Wigan definitely should be winning everything!
There is nobody that will do a better job at this club than Shaun Wane, the reasons are obvious.

I see your point. But we are a young team with real promise. A lot younger than 2010. Manfredi, Gildart, Bateman, Williams, Hampshire and Sutton have so much improvement in them and they are already good enough. We have the best back row. Lockers showed last night he has plenty left to offer. Our props stood up and Flower and Mossop ended the season on a real high. For me we need a better hooker and one more prop. Other than that I'm happy.

Sit back and enjoy the ride

Who said that we expect us to win everything? That same line gets thrown around by every happy clapping Wane supporter our there.

To put a simple point on it Leeds seem to win at least one trophy every other year. That for me is the benchmark that Wigan, as another big club, have to be matching.

On the one hand you think we should win at least one trophy per year. And yet you protest that you don't think we should win everything. As there are only two trophies each year worth winning, you have previously argued that the LLS is meaningless, your logic is amiss.

You do know what "benchmark" means don't you?