One of the most basic elements of the game is having a strong pack, 'props win pots'.

Wigan need a massive back to basics reality check.
As boring as it is I would really strip down what we do, for example:

-Pack needs to take the ball up making the hard yards getting the team out of danger into key field position.
-Halves to put in attacking kicks not defensive clearance kicks pinning the opposition in their own half with a strong kick chase.
-Force the opposition kicks to be defensive clearances.
-Only try to put on fast attacking play moving the ball out wide when in key positions on the pitch, taking the ball to the game line forcing the opposition into committing drawing men in.

In defensive no mistakes, don't push your luck with the ref with lying on or niggling in the tackles and always be back in line with the ref; don't give anyway field position cheaply.

Currently we're forcing the play trying to sent the ball through the backs in our own half putting so much pressure on ourselves coming up with silly errors, panicking then making more errors.

It's all so frustrating, but who to blame? Is it the pack's fault, the coach's, or both?

One thing that struck me last night was the performance of Sims. He demanded the ball twice every set and put himself in the position to receive the ball.

Now, he struggled at first and people were starting to say that he was the worst of the three brothers, and that he was another Asotasi etc. But what he has done, through sheer effort and will, is make himself a leader. You can see it quite clearly now.

I understand people who want to blame Waney, but my finger is pointed firmly in the direction of the players. Have some pride in the shirt and do what Sims has done.

I would put the blame fairly at the door of the players, coaches do not control how players can keep dropping the ball or making stupid mistakes - effort/aggression/determination comes from players and it is something that seems to have gone missing from quite a few as the season has gone on.

For the first time in along time I was seriously questioning the effort last night and the worthiness of some players to wear the shirt - it is looking increasingly like a damn good clear out is needed if performances do not improve. Whatever this costs in financial terms.

Other teams have always upped their performances against Wigan - has been the case for a long time but this current Wigan team seem to have no second gear to lift themselves to - too much one paced forward play is helping no one.

Part of blame must go to the club/coaching staff - poor recruitment has hurt the club, signing or bring back players on sentiment is not a recipe for success. The club is crying out for the recruitment of a top class prop pack leader - something that has been missing for some time now.

Sad thing is that Sims is absolute crap. Cheap shot after cheap shot, but he was certainly the boss last night.

I wouldn't say he is crap, but i know where you're coming from. Certainly any one of our forwards should be capable of doing what he does.

On a similar note, in the Salford game Morley made more metres, made more tackles and took more hit ups than any of our props. It is a sad situation when a 37 year old has-been (though undoubtedly a great has-been, but you get the point) is showing more willing than all of your props..

In comparison we had Mossop who if not careful will start to get pinned for voluntary tackles the way he's dying with the ball!! He's on the floor before they've got near him.

Mossop, Flower and Crosby are killing us at the moment. Well either they are or the tactics of how they're being used are.

He certainly isn't absolute crap, we have Roy Asotasi to benchmark that against!

He's grown as the season has progressed and as mentioned is turning into a bit of a leader out there. Yesterday was the first time I've seen him get really stuck in, along with Westwood he was certainly bossing the Wigan forwards.

The astonishing thing about Crosby(?) is that around the 70th minute he suddenly perked up and decided he want to fight someone during a scrum. His teammates might wonder why he waited until the game was effectively over to show some aggression.

I wouldn't say that Sims is crap (or the worst brother), but he's never been short of a cheap shot.

I did wonder what on earth Sam Tomkins made of it, watching on from NZ. He's probably wondering what the hell he's let himself in for.

I think watching some of Sam's recent displays, the feeling might be mutual!!!

Let's hope we are good for each other (Wigan and Sam I mean).

At one point Daryl knocked Mossop over like he was a skittle in a bowling alley & Daryl is no monster.
Our pack totally dominated and thats where the game was won.

I'm sure he was picked up by that Embarrassing flag that came out right at the end of the game.

Flower should have been used at loose IMO, that worked really well I'm 2013. He got through a ton of defence (49 tackles!). Agree about Mossop and Crosby, would add Patrick to that as well. Sutton didn't offer much either

If I were the Mugwump this board thinks I am I would demand an apology from the lot of you for pointing out what I felt was an obvious frailty in the pack over sixteen months ago - only to be labelled a "troll".

But I'm far too chivalrous and philanthropic to kick a guy when he's on the ground.