But we had won or were winning trophies during those years. Presently we look bottom 4 and play like a bottom 4 team hence the attendances. Will still get 20k plus versus Saints

Overall the quality of SL this year is dire - you look around DW and there are very few young fans anymore, those that are there are not really interested in the game. The reason for this is down to excitement and I'm afraid that is in very short supply these days despite the fact that every minute matters

Sorry to say I agree.
I'm sure the marketing guys are aware of this re youngsters and will act accordingly

One of the biggest factors affecting SL for me is the way that the referees are allowing the PLB to slow right down. This is killing the excitement of the game. It is creating a boring game. You could have the superstars in the world playing but it would still be dull with such a slow PLB.

Absolutely. And coming at a time when refereeing guidelines in the NRL look to have made a big improvement this season (but let's see if it lasts!), Superleague is starting to look clumsy and laboured.

Latics are averaging 12,600, we'll beat that this season.

I think the lack of a superstar player(s) can't be underestimated. Who in this team puts bums on seats? There isn't anyone. We've gone from playing the most exciting rugby in the league (2012) to probably the least watchable.

And the constant turnover of players is so frustrating.

Spot on IMO.

If your best players keep leaving so will some fans. We've consistently seen our better players leave year on year and that's deflating. It's good that the comp is now more competitive and that may eventually lead to more income and therefore is being able to hold our best players but until it does it'll be seen as a second rate comp.

Ask me to name the 20 most exciting players to watch in World rugby league and I'd name possibly none from superleague.

On the other hand, other clubs crowds are up. Wigan are not a barometer of the new structure. The entire league will be that barometer over a full season, not just a few games.

Wigan's falling crowds are an issue for Wigan. Maybe it's down to the style of play, maybe it the Brigantines banning has had an effect on that section of fans, maybe it's a lack of Tomkins. Maybe it's a lack of marketing. But I would also say it's early days.

Who's crowds are up?
Saints are down on last season, Wire are down, Leeds are down.

I'm sorry but that's us!!

Last night I watched the Penrith Panthers. Derided by some last season as a team of no stars (well, except Jamie Soward, and he was just returned from Superleague, so must be past it, right?), they exceeded expectations then, and this season are going from strength to strength. After an admittedly shakey start, they played the most exciting attacking rugby I have seen for a long time. confidence in the squad is obviously sky-high, and, as remarked in commentary, if they continue with that form, they will be packing them in. So yes, I do think the brand of rugby you're playing is the biggest factor.

I think it's quite simple, everything has declined (players, quality, coaches, refs) but yet prices have gone up?

I'm now paying more to watch a bunch of kids/also rans than what I did watching some of the best players In the world only a few seasons back!

The fans and the players have been treated like mugs by the RFL & owners for years. The players at least can go over to the NRL to get the money they deserve whereas the fans are stuck here and milked.

Who's crowds are up then ?

Saints are

Good summary.
I'd also add that the brigantine element is well down on a couple of years ago leading to the funereal atmosphere at a lot of the home games and even some of the away games.