Charnley is copping an unfair amount of flack. He's probably been given a decent pass in a position to make good space around 3 times - and one of those Watkins placed a foot into touch.

He's made alot of hard yards - unluckily for him we just didn't seem to work the ball his way to create the opportunities, too often we went that way without straightening the move up to give him space.

You lose all credibility if you place any blame on Sarginson in for what's been as near to two faultless displays as you will see from someone making a debut. Reading the boards a lot though in the last few weeks has clearly shown there's still an enormous anti-wigan feeling about our players that is embarrassing.

Totally agree re Sarginson.
Certainly the find of the series for me and all credit for McNamara for picking him ahead of Shenton.
I also think Charnley is undeservedly copping some flak.
The weakest of all the Wigan players was Joel Tomkins but not sure who else he could have played there.
Watkins when he tried to take a man on did ok apart from a foot in touch.
He seemed to be defending much more that attacking in all three games.
Hall played well and should have scored three against NZ. He did the hard work staying out of touch and should not have dropped that ball.
Going forward I would like to see Hardaker at FB with Tomkins in the halves alongside Widdop.

Charnley - 7 - ok tournament but didn't have much help from an average Watkins. Think his spot could be at risk this time next year from Burgess

Sarginson - 9 - credit to SM for playing him. In the top 5 English players of the tournament.

Smith - 6.5 - decent club player, but England are crying our for a scrum-half in the Andy Greg mould. Someone dynamic who backs themselves to take on and break the line. Question is, who else is there?

Tomkins - 6 - looked off the pace and didn't really offer much going forward.

Farrell - 7 - solid in the tackle, runs some great lines. Always looks like he's going to give away a penalty.

Lockers - 8 - gave 110% and got through a hell of a lot of work. Would be great to have him fully fit for a series

I know he doesn't play for us anymore, but how do people feel Sam played? I'm really starting to think he's being wasted at FB. I thought he was going to be the next Lockyer, but i'm not so sure...

I thought Sam Tomkins was ok in the first game, good in the second and pretty poor in the third. His game has changed, there's no doubt about it. He used to love to take the line on and at times didn't pick the correct pass but he's now a real creative player preferring to use his runners around him then go himself.

He looks more then ready to move to stand off now. His game looks far more suited to that position then at fullback given how he's playing. I thought Smith did pretty well in this tournament but I can't help but feel we'd be a better side with Tomkins and Widdop (who needs to do more) in the halves.

I'm encouraged by the whole 4 nations.

We are still within touching distance of both NZ and Aus, (you could argue the worst Aus team in recent memory though). Some of the senior citizens of the England team have gone (for the better IMO) and I think we'd be in the final had Slammin Sam not gone.

from a Wigan point of view

Sarg's rehabilitation seems to be coming on leaps and bounds, at London, due to lack of quality around him was forced to be greedy, now at the higher level it is more about creating space and choosing when to go yourself and when to give the winder that half yard.

Tomkins looks better each game since his return from yawnion

Dan Sarginson was a revelation. Hand on heart - I was so nervous for him before the Aussie game and he was superb. Then I thought maybe it was a one-off and he'll blow up against NZ, but he was even better.

Now did ANYONE see that coming in the middle of August at Hull KR when he was so poor? He has improved beyond belief since that night.

Credit to Shaun Wane or whoever at Wigan spotted that potential. Also he must be a confident type of lad because many players would have been overawed by a debut against Aussie in Aussie.

Since this time last year he has played in a World Club Challenge, a Grand Final and played for England twice (and lost the lot - though that is certainly not down to him). So there is lots to be enthusiastic about next year and lots for him personally and (the team) collectively to aim for.

Personally I can't wait for next season.

i thought budgie should have played instead of charnley against NZ, the stats may back charnley up but they rarely win you games on their own. looked ineffective, partially down to Watkins, however I thought watkins, in defence in particular, was superb in the first two games so it is unfair to blame charleys "poor" tournament on that.

hill is and continues to be a revelation in the England team. the burgess brothers give us a great platform for years to come. widdop for me was the biggest flop, I'd rather have sinfield in there! a lomax and smith partnership will do nicely for me moving forwards.

hodgson didn't do much for me either, a fit roby or mcilorum would easily take his place in the squad.

all in all we have a lot to be positive about, that squad was very young and certainly has the potential to win tournaments over the next few years if we can keep the starting 13 fit.

I think a lot of people are forgetting about Reed as a centre.

He's certainly the best overall one that we have.

He looked good at Brisbane earlier this year before he got injured. He can play left or right too. But Watkins and Sarg have those places to lose now. They did enough over the tournament to earn another go next year.

Sarginson was excellent and a real surprise for most fans. Watkins showed glimpses of what he can do but he seems to have lapses in concentration. A move to the NRL would be ideal for him. He's classy enough and he'd learn a hell of a lot.

To be honest I think any one of England's starting 17 could get a gig in the NRL and it's been a long time since we could say that about the team.

I think the problem with Charnley is that he appears so laid back at times, I think it annoys people. Overall he was OK throughout the 4Ns, and he was in there on merit. I do think however that if Burgess and Lineham can stay fit and develop as we all hope then he won't be first choice much longer. Another player I really like is Jermaine McGilvery at Hudds. He's a real wrecking ball kick returner, gets a quick PTB and has genuine pace, he is however very error prone

calm down precious, no one has said that

Quote: suffolk rhinos "calm down precious, no one has said that'" But it was so much better when we had all those super Leeds and Saints players and that brilliant Tony Smith as coach wasn't it? www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/n ... eagueteam1

Quote: suffolk rhinos "calm down precious, no one has said that'" But it was so much better when we had all those super Leeds and Saints players and that brilliant Tony Smith as coach wasn't it? www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/n ... eagueteam1