Presuming Taylor isn't going to be here, and while Flower is banned and Thornley is injured I can't see it being too different from:

Bowen
Charnley
Gelling
Sarginson
Burgess
Powell
Smith
Crosby
McIlorum
Clubb
Joel Tomkins
Farrell
O'Loughlin

Tautai
Pettybourne
Bateman
Williams

Hampshire to get game time when Bowen is rested. Still can't see the benefit of keeping Logan Tomkins on, he's way down the pecking order now. A goalkicking stand-off would be nice.

In terms of recruitment I think we will see what happens with Taylor and that could open up an opportunity to bring somebody in.

I would not rule out an experienced half-back in the mould of a Paul Deacon type player which may help with the goal kicking and more importantly organisation of play.

On reflection, the signing of Deacon was met with little excitement from supporters generally but it proved very important and I can see a similar thing happening.

Looking forward to seeing Tautai next season. In the game at Wakey he was sensational. He deservedly got MoM and he battered our pack almost single handed. IF he stays fit I can see him having a big impact from the bench next season.

Add to that Crosby, Flower (hopefully), Clubb, Pettybourne, Sutton, Dudson and Greenwood - that's 8 props without Taylor, and any 3 from Joel, Bateman, Faz and Lockers, I reckon back up hooker is the only weakness.

In the backs Sarginson and Gelling came on a bomb in the last month of the season. No worries there for me and with Thornley to back up too. The wingers are second to none. Bowen needs to be phased out with Hampshire getting more games.

That leaves the halves - Smith has been a revelation since signing. I believe that we need an old stager at SO in the Paul Deacon mould. I'm not sure there is anyone though. Would Terry Campese be worth a punt (I think Hull KR are interested)?

If and when Taylor goes I'd like to see a replacement brought in. With Flowers ban I think we'll start to look pretty weak in that front row for a good portion of the season unless we recruit.

There's talk of Taylor moving to Huddersfield on loan which if correct would give then an awesome front row selection of Taylor, Huby, Kopzack and Crabtree. I would be looking for Larne Patrick to come in the opposite direction. I really think we could turn him in to something pretty special here.

Kopczak is weak and Crabtree well past it.

No-one has the strength in depth that we have. Clubb, Crosby, Tautai, Pettybourne, Greenwood, Sutton, Dudson & Flower will do for me.

At Wigan we don't rely on a couple of guys like Leeds for example, we share the workload, so no one prop sticks out. We play as a team. Our pack even without Taylor is the best in the comp by miles. My only concern is if MMc is out, because with Joel back we have adequate cover if Lockers is injured.

There is depth there alright but very little strength and experience.

Flower is out until past Easter. Crosby had a good season.

Clubb, Eddie and Dudson are average to poor.

Greenwood and Sutton lack experience.

In the last few games of this season our starting props were Crosby and Flower and they were overall much better than Clubb and Eddie. When those two came on we were treading water. I think each had the odd decent game but overall they were just not good enough and not to the standard of the other two. Neither is Dudson.

Until Flower returns we will be relying on Crosby and Tauati as we relied on Crosby and Flower.

We are paying wages for too many average props in my opinion.



I really don't see how you can say our pack is the best by miles. The back row is very good but the props??? In my opinion we have three props who are good enough, Crosby, Flower and (based on how he went at Wakey) Tauati. We then have three average blokes in Clubb, Eddie and Dudson who are as likely to be downright poor as they are to pull a good game out. Then we have some young props.

With Flower out for so long we have two props up to the job IMO.

As to MM being out the problem is not just that it is who to spell with him when he is fit. Williams proved a good find in that role as he added something different when he came on. If he gets the 6 shirt then its either Powell ot Logon and I can't say either is very inspiring.

As erudite as ever.

Two points;

- Think you are being unfair on Clubb, who by common consent has had a good season, has made more breaks than any other prop and has rather confounded our early fears about him. I agree about Eddie, maybe he will improve in his second season.

- Maybe it's about time MMc started doing the full 80 minutes like Roby does, shouldn't be beyond a decent international hooker should it? If he really is as good as we make out then he should do the whole game. Of course that doesn't answer the problem of who backs up. I agree that Powell or Tomkins don't inspire. Doran and Wright may get more opportunities.

Disagree with you on Clubb Dave. He's more than proven himself this season and has been on a par with Flower. I think he maybe suffers from the 2 x 2 substitution that we seem to have adopted as Flower has the benefit of a very solid and hardworking prop in Crosby in tandem wheras, generally speaking, Clubb doesn't have that luxury. Depending on just how good Tautai turns out to be, especially in a good team and following a Wigan preseason, then we look strong at prop next season (Flower's ban notwithstanding). We also don't yet know the truth regarding Taylor and whether he'll be with us next year. If he is, that changes the situation completely and it would be reasonable to say, should he be staying, that we are better in that position than we have been for some time.

The problem with playing Rocky at 6 is we would have to change our entire team ethos to accommodate him. He is an individually brilliant off the cuff player and playing to patterns and structures like we do simply is not his game, hence why he is utilised at fullback for us.

From what I told Rocky will get game time at both 1 and 6 next year so it will be interesting to are how he goes.

In relation to the criticism of Clubb, I don't get it. Think he has been excellent this year.

The best balance IMO, and a way to accommodate all 3, would be Rocky at 1 (eventually) Powell at 6 and Williams coming off the bench at 9. Williams and Powell have both shown they can defend well in the line and comfortably deal with 40+ tackles, I wouldn't fancy rocky needing to get through that sort of work. My main worry would be whether Powell has got enough quality to steer us round the park and take control, particularly in big games.

Clubb has been excellent this year and Crosby has come on a bundle. I'm happy with those two and Flower but after that we're a little short (even more so with Flower suspended). I think Tautai will go well and Sutton could develop but guys like Pettybourne and Dudson are a liability.

If and when Taylor leaves we need a replacement.

Two very biased comments there mate.

Firstly - Amor, Walmsley, Richards, Masoe, LMS, Thompson, Walker, Savelio represents as much depth as your selection of props.

Secondly, that is a shocking comment. Best pack in the comp is a bold claim, but by miles?

Ok I'll admit to being biased! But in my defence I was arguing the point with someone who was rubbishing our own props, so I went a little OTT.

My best pack claim is based on the second row really. Any 3 out of O'Loughlin, Tomkins, Farrell and Bateman would grace any team. O'Loughlin is the best all round forward in the British game so any pack that he is in has a head start.

Don't forget that the Wigan pack was a man down (as if we could) so I wouldn't read anything into your victory as far as your pack goes. On reflection. The Wigan, Saints and Wire packs will be strong next season. You wouldn't be surprised to know that I think the Wigan pack is the best. I think you'd struggle to argue with any conviction that Saints pack is better.

(Though no doubt you'll try)

Haha.

My opinion on our pack wasn't based on the game last week. I genuinely believe that our pack is better than most in the league and bettered by nobody.

I agree on O'Loughlin being the best player in the league, he is awesome. Farrell and Bateman are also top top players and especially in the case if Bateman he will only get better. Tomkins is yet to get going in my opinion but on his day he's a real handful and is very dependable defensively. I rate Flower very highly also and Crosby impresses me but is yet to find consistency in my opinion.

To balance that out, I also feel that Amor and Walmsley are top props and Roby is the best hooker in the league. Obviously we will miss Soliola and Manu but Vea and our next signing (which is rumoured to be announced very soon) will hopefully bridge that gap. Luke Thompson and Greg Richards are fast becoming hard to ignore.

Overall there's not a lot in it. You have the better 2nd row and loose forward and we have the better props and hooker. I personally believe we just about edge it. 90% of Wigan fans will say yours is the stronger pack, 90% of Saints fans will say that ours is; that's life. One thing for certain though is that neither pack is miles ahead of the other.