If only the OP had said that. Could have saved us all an hour or so

Well this was a good thread, well done gents, top notch stuff

So Rogues is discounting saints treble because the RFL decided to hastily arrange a halfd mid season test match which led to a couple of saints players getting a bonus for making an England debut?

Sounds reasonable.

If a team is good enough to do the double they will. There's a fair chance Wigan could do it this year.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with FTV on this one. This thread was clearly made to highlight our perceived inability to win both trophies on offer this year, despite having one of the easiest routes to the trophy for many a year (240 points scored compared to 28 conceded in our cup run tells its own story).



This Wigan team is good enough, and I don't think we'll get an easier chance to do it for a long long time, but on current form, they're not convincing very many people at all. I too hope that I am vastly wrong.

The double is very very hard under current circumstances. Warrington have come closest so far last year.

In 2006 saints had a pretty easy final against huddersfield who at the time were in the lower half of a 12 team league. They then only had to win 1 game to get to old trafford and had a week off either side. So it was staked in their favour.

Now the playoff format is more difficult to negotiate.

Despite wigans poor form they still have a chance. If they win on thurs they are one game away so must fancy the chances in that situation.

If they lose, they just have to beat hullkr/saints at home. Certainly not a foregone conclusion but if wigan can up their intensity they should have it in their locker. They are then just 80 minutes away from old trafford, against a hudds team that IMO could be jittery whereas wigan will be battle hardened and fresh off a nice derby win.

The final itself is another story, but wigan should be able to make old trafford. The question is will they play leeds or warrington.

I reckon we'll end up playing Huddersfield in week 3 regardless of what happens on Thursday, and I reckon we'll find it in us to turn them over. However, I just can't see us coming up with the goods against Wire or Leeds in the final. Wire have had the better of us since '06 and Leeds are so used to turning up and winning at Old Trafford every year. Thursday will be a big indicator of whether Wane can sort out our attack in time, Huddersfield are a very good defensive side and if we can get over for 4 or 5 tries against them we can against anybody.

When we won the Challenge Cup in 2010, the defeated team (Leeds) went on to win the Grand Final, I think that they didn't lose a game again after the final all season, if a beaten finalist can do it, why not the winning team ?

Only last season the same two teams played out the CCF and GF.

It's far from impossible.

My point exactly, winning one trophy should give you the confidence to go on and win the other, injuries to major players is the key, at present we have one main casualty, if we are lucky enough to keep the rest of the squad healthy (as healthy as they can be at this time of year), we should be able to compete with the best.

We won't win the Grand Final because we're not good enough to beat the top sides, especially when it matters. Nothing to do with winning the Cup.

So how did we win the cup? They were all in it.

I know we had a very easy route and that is IMO the main reason why we did. I am not suggesting we were any more likely to beat the top sides in a CC final than we are to win a GF.

What I [iam[/i suggesting is luck can play a part in winning the GF almost as much as the CC. It's why the play-offs just like the CC don't tell you who the best team over the year is.

Under the old top 5 system I reckon we'd have no chance as we'd have to beat all the sides above us.

Under this system we will avoid playing one of the sides above us completely (if we progress) and even if we lose v Hudds our next game is against a side lower down in the league.

It's easier to get to a semi-final from 4th in this system than the top 5. So despite poor form and with luck such as Hudds getting nervous we could find ourselves in a semi final.

By rights based on form I don't reckon we have any right to expect that but that is the system we have.

It's a lot easier to win the GF from lower down the league in a top 8 format than it is a a top 5 or top 6

Quite true. The 7th or 8th placed finishers would literally have no chance of winning it.

Well if you want to say that consider the 5th placed side who would have also been in the old top 5. They get a home game v 8th under the top eight compared to away at 4th under the top 5. Both sudden death but the top 8 gives them an advantage compared to the top 5.

They are also going to have an easier round 1 game than the top four opponent who they will face the week after will have done. It's nuts.