FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Super League - a solution ??? |
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| Some really good ideas here.
I like the 9 + 9 with the first nine playing each other twice and then playing the other nine once. That would give us 25 games which is ok.
Dump the Magic weekend from SL and bring it in at the last 16 stage of the C Cup. Eighteen teams is too many for the Magic weekend anyway.
The OP was concerned about smaller clubs holding onto their better players and not having them poached by bigger clubs therefore becoming more competitive. If we are serious about wanting a more competitive SL then this is a major problem we have to overcome.
I do think the player rating system would stand up to scrutiny which would put fresh emphasis on clubs producing their own talent.
Produce your own and you'll survive and thrive, don't and you won't do either!
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| I think money has a part of it, but maybe the players want to try to play against the better teams as much as possible. Something which the NRL can offer which sadly the SL can't.
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| Quote: DANN "I think that you will start to see the decline this year. If you look at Wigan for example our team next year will be far weaker than this year. Going forward we will continue to lose our top talent to either RU or the NRL. Some clubs will be affected whilst others less so. For example if you look at Wire most of their top players are the wrong side of 30 so are of no real interest. Forwards cant really play in like for like positions in RU so I was always comforted with many of ours being contracted. NRL clubs rarely paid transfer fees but this is changing so everyone is now fair game. The only up side of this is money coming into our game in the form of transfer fees but this is short term. Agents will be advising thier clients to sign shorter contracts.
I dont really know what the answer is. The only real way of keeping players in our game is to pay them more. However how many clubs are actually able to afford to pay up to the limit as it stands now? For the ones that can then the issue is the level of the cap.
So many of my fellow supporters are not renewing next year. Lower crowds will mean less money coming in. As the top players move on then the standard of the game naturally declines. The lower the standard then the less money the RFL can command in sponsorship and TV rights. The less that comes in the worse the situation gets. Its a vicious circle.
We are staging the next world cup for both RL and RU in the next 3 years. Which competition would exite you most in terms of crowds etc? RL doesnt have this problem in Australia as their club game has thrived for years.
I can honestly say tha IMO our club game will be semi pro within 5 years and who knows where we will be after that.
I take your point about the England team but what difference will it really make if none of them play over here.
Its all very depressing
Why on earth will it be semi pro within 5 years?
We have the second most watched league on Sky Sports.
Our league is virtually on par with Unions premiership for attendances, and would be much higher if it wasn't for the economic downturn up north.
We will make a big profit on the World Cup, no matter how much the flatcappers try to drag it down.
I hear the same old nonsense every year about fans 'not renewing', but the crowds just keep rising.
Only thing that holds back this league is the attitude of its fans.
And always will be.
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| JonB95. You say we have the second most watched league on Sky Sports.
The problem for the Rugby League is it is probably one of the cheapest in terms of the cost to Sky.
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| Quote: JonB95 "Why on earth will it be semi pro within 5 years?
We have the second most watched league on Sky Sports.
Our league is virtually on par with Unions premiership for attendances, and would be much higher if it wasn't for the economic downturn up north.
We will make a big profit on the World Cup, no matter how much the flatcappers try to drag it down.
I hear the same old nonsense every year about fans 'not renewing', but the crowds just keep rising.
Only thing that holds back this league is the attitude of its fans.
And always will be.'"
My point is really based on the fact the the problem has not really hit us yet. As players continue to leave our game the quality will dip. Whilst some people (including me) will alway have a season ticket some will lose faith as much as interest. Whilst I take your point about sky currently how long will they want to fund a sport that is becoming weaker, and please dont tell me that its not. As for average crowds they are not virtually on a par with RU. If you add the average of the 14 SL clubs and divide it shows and average of just over 9500. Yawnion averages 3000 more which equates to nearly 25%! I didnt realise that the global credit crisis was restricted to the north of England however you could cancel that out with the fact that the summer months does lead to larger crowds. If things carry on do you really think that crowds will rise?
We might well make a profit on the World Cup but so what? Where will the money go? My point was about the crowds etc and how our players would kill for an international game like they have.
So the attitude of the fans is whats holding the game back? Really?? I dont think any of the players off to pastures new would cite this as the reason that theyre going, whichever club they leave.
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| Quote: stillinthepast "JonB95. You say we have the second most watched league on Sky Sports.
The problem for the Rugby League is it is probably one of the cheapest in terms of the cost to Sky.'"
And it should cost more. But what position are we in to order Sky Sports around? They have been something of a saving grace for our sport.
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| Quote: JonB95 "And it should cost more. But what position are we in to order Sky Sports around? They have been something of a saving grace for our sport.'"
Thats true but I do think our game is undersold by the RFL
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| Quote: DANN "My point is really based on the fact the the problem has not really hit us yet. As players continue to leave our game the quality will dip. Whilst some people (including me) will alway have a season ticket some will lose faith as much as interest. Whilst I take your point about sky currently how long will they want to fund a sport that is becoming weaker, and please dont tell me that its not. As for average crowds they are not virtually on a par with RU. If you add the average of the 14 SL clubs and divide it shows and average of just over 9500. Yawnion averages 3000 more which equates to nearly 25%! I didnt realise that the global credit crisis was restricted to the north of England however you could cancel that out with the fact that the summer months does lead to larger crowds. If things carry on do you really think that crowds will rise?
We might well make a profit on the World Cup but so what? Where will the money go? My point was about the crowds etc and how our players would kill for an international game like they have.
So the attitude of the fans is whats holding the game back? Really?? I dont think any of the players off to pastures new would cite this as the reason that theyre going, whichever club they leave.'"
The reason club RU is 3000 in front of us average wise is due to saracens playing at wembley once or twice a year giving thousands of free tickets away. Harlequins do the same at twickenham. If saracens, harlequins, london irish and wasp didnt take games to big stadiums and give away thousands of free tickets the average crowd of club RU would be around 10,000. RU is exactly thriving they have had wasps go in admin and the only have one top flight team in the north sale and they may get relegated this year. As for the welsh RU clubs they all went out of business and there down to 4 regions and there still struggling to make ends meet. I think people on here really overate RU
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| Quote: DANN "My point is really based on the fact the the problem has not really hit us yet. As players continue to leave our game the quality will dip. Whilst some people (including me) will alway have a season ticket some will lose faith as much as interest. Whilst I take your point about sky currently how long will they want to fund a sport that is becoming weaker, and please dont tell me that its not. As for average crowds they are not virtually on a par with RU. If you add the average of the 14 SL clubs and divide it shows and average of just over 9500. Yawnion averages 3000 more which equates to nearly 25%! I didnt realise that the global credit crisis was restricted to the north of England however you could cancel that out with the fact that the summer months does lead to larger crowds. If things carry on do you really think that crowds will rise?
We might well make a profit on the World Cup but so what? Where will the money go? My point was about the crowds etc and how our players would kill for an international game like they have.
So the attitude of the fans is whats holding the game back? Really?? I dont think any of the players off to pastures new would cite this as the reason that theyre going, whichever club they leave.'"
Don't forget here the Union average is taking into account both the Twickenham double header and the Saracens-Harlequins game, in which about 70,000 of the crowd were there primarily because they either got free tickets or wanted to see McFly perform. I don't think this says anything about the greater popularity of rugby union. Of course the credit crunch isn't restricted to the north, but i'm sure as you know rugby league is most popular in some of the more.. 'deprived' areas of our country, in stark contrast to union! (cliché, but true)
The quality of our league is still far above any of the dog turd i've seen dished up this season in the Aviva Premiership (which is declining just as badly imo). I'm sick to death of our fans complaining about how crap Super League is. If anything I think it's WONDERFUL that we are seeing more and more young players coming through in place of the Australian veterans. It will in the long-term increase the credibility of our competition.
I'm sure we can weather a few years of a dip in intensity. The more young English players experiencing Super League week in week out, the better it will become over a longer period of time.
The profit made from the World Cup will be distributed however the RFL chooses. I don't know, I don't work there! Of course, the number 1 benefit is the increased awareness to our great sport across the globe. Our international game is small of course, but we have to accept this and do whatever we can to send the game to new audiences. Union's world cup is of little interest to me - i'm sure it will have an effect, but will it be long-term? It's already under fire because the games have been all scheduled for soulless football grounds with virtually zero rugby heritage (apart from Gloucester). Do we really want our game to sell its soul like that?
The difference in union is that their fans generally accept their game as it is, and will fight its corner whenever they possibly can. And the RFU is not the most spectacular organization in the world either.
I don't know why I bother myself with some of the whingers on here. Just accept the game and keep smiling, if you love the game enough then watching it week in week out should be enough to put a smile on your face - we are lucky to have what we have.
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| Quote: JonB95 "Don't forget here the Union average is taking into account both the Twickenham double header and the Saracens-Harlequins game, in which about 70,000 of the crowd were there primarily because they either got free tickets or wanted to see McFly perform. I don't think this says anything about the greater popularity of rugby union. Of course the credit crunch isn't restricted to the north, but i'm sure as you know rugby league is most popular in some of the more.. 'deprived' areas of our country, in stark contrast to union! (cliché, but true)
The quality of our league is still far above any of the dog turd i've seen dished up this season in the Aviva Premiership (which is declining just as badly imo). I'm sick to death of our fans complaining about how crap Super League is. If anything I think it's WONDERFUL that we are seeing more and more young players coming through in place of the Australian veterans. It will in the long-term increase the credibility of our competition.
I'm sure we can weather a few years of a dip in intensity. The more young English players experiencing Super League week in week out, the better it will become over a longer period of time.
The profit made from the World Cup will be distributed however the RFL chooses. I don't know, I don't work there! Of course, the number 1 benefit is the increased awareness to our great sport across the globe. Our international game is small of course, but we have to accept this and do whatever we can to send the game to new audiences. Union's world cup is of little interest to me - i'm sure it will have an effect, but will it be long-term? It's already under fire because the games have been all scheduled for soulless football grounds with virtually zero rugby heritage (apart from Gloucester). Do we really want our game to sell its soul like that?
The difference in union is that their fans generally accept their game as it is, and will fight its corner whenever they possibly can. And the RFU is not the most spectacular organization in the world either.
I don't know why I bother myself with some of the whingers on here. Just accept the game and keep smiling, if you love the game enough then watching it week in week out should be enough to put a smile on your face - we are lucky to have what we have.'"
I agree 100% i can not believe what i read with some of these lot.
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sale sharks 6800, London welsh 4500, London irish 7000, London wasp 6500, Exeter 7000, Worcester 8000, Saracens 6500 that is approx what will watch these clubs on a average game at there regular stadiums. Its nothing to shout about is really not much different to are lower clubs. Only club that gets regular big crowds is Leicester Tigers the rest are bumped up with these free ticket days at wembley and twickenham. Also london irish on st patricks day go from 6500 - 7000 to getting 20,000 for a day probably due to free tickets. The only team in london that get decent crowds is harlequins average 14,000. We talk about boom and bust most of these union clubs are losing a fortune but still want to offer people like Tomkins big money it is only due to wealthy owners as they take are players. We could do same if we raised cap and the likes of IL put his hand in his pocket. Yeah we would lose money but its up to owners to clear the debt and if we ever lose a wealthy a owner the club goes t*ts up just like saracens would if there owner walked away. If we are going to die as you all say we might as well go down fighting and yes there will be a gap between the top and the bottom clubs but there already is now so nothing will change. Look at there losses in this in 2009-2010 and nothing will have changed for them www.nowrugby.com/mb/showthread.php?t=84333
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sale sharks 6800, London welsh 4500, London irish 7000, London wasp 6500, Exeter 7000, Worcester 8000, Saracens 6500 that is approx what will watch these clubs on a average game at there regular stadiums. Its nothing to shout about is really not much different to are lower clubs. Only club that gets regular big crowds is Leicester Tigers the rest are bumped up with these free ticket days at wembley and twickenham. Also london irish on st patricks day go from 6500 - 7000 to getting 20,000 for a day probably due to free tickets. The only team in london that get decent crowds is harlequins average 14,000. We talk about boom and bust most of these union clubs are losing a fortune but still want to offer people like Tomkins big money it is only due to wealthy owners as they take are players. We could do same if we raised cap and the likes of IL put his hand in his pocket. Yeah we would lose money but its up to owners to clear the debt and if we ever lose a wealthy a owner the club goes t*ts up just like saracens would if there owner walked away. If we are going to die as you all say we might as well go down fighting and yes there will be a gap between the top and the bottom clubs but there already is now so nothing will change. Look at there losses in this in 2009-2010 and nothing will have changed for them www.nowrugby.com/mb/showthread.php?t=84333
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| Some on here say that they are fed-up with the doom merchants of RL and we should look at the woes of the RFU to get the real picture of the respective sports into a true perspective. I believe it’s not me and others like me who can’t see the real picture. If you lot think for one minute that RU will sink like a stone just because our beloved game is a much better product, and in time good will conquer evil, think again. All I can say you’ve probably lived in the North for too long. Aside from the product, all our game has is its fans and an inept management structure, and though I agree these also apply to RU what they have which we don’t is backing where it counts, from the big boys at the BBC, to the old school ties in the halls of power, of newspaper sport, and even government. Just watch the coverage on all TV channels and see the difference in coverage, the BBC love to promote the Northern cloth cap an whippet image, and if you think I’m wrong, then it’s not me who’s deluded.
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| Quote: pies-r-us "Some on here say that they are fed-up with the doom merchants of RL and we should look at the woes of the RFU to get the real picture of the respective sports into a true perspective. I believe it’s not me and others like me who can’t see the real picture. If you lot think for one minute that RU will sink like a stone just because our beloved game is a much better product, and in time good will conquer evil, think again. All I can say you’ve probably lived in the North for too long. Aside from the product, all our game has is its fans and an inept management structure, and though I agree these also apply to RU what they have which we don’t is backing where it counts, from the big boys at the BBC, to the old school ties in the halls of power, of newspaper sport, and even government. Just watch the coverage on all TV channels and see the difference in coverage, the BBC love to promote the Northern cloth cap an whippet image, and if you think I’m wrong, then it’s not me who’s deluded.'"
I do not think RU will ever die but i also do not think RL is going to die or go semi pro in the next 5 years as some say. For as long as the 57 old farts are running RU/the country union will always get more coverage on tv and in papers. RU as always been the same and had big international scence but it does not mean we have to die.
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| Quote: JC1984 "sale sharks 6800, London welsh 4500, London irish 7000, London wasp 6500, Exeter 7000, Worcester 8000, Saracens 6500 that is approx what will watch these clubs on a average game at there regular stadiums. Its nothing to shout about is really not much different to are lower clubs. Only club that gets regular big crowds is Leicester Tigers the rest are bumped up with these free ticket days at wembley and twickenham. Also london irish on st patricks day go from 6500 - 7000 to getting 20,000 for a day probably due to free tickets. The only team in london that get decent crowds is harlequins average 14,000. We talk about boom and bust most of these union clubs are losing a fortune but still want to offer people like Tomkins big money it is only due to wealthy owners as they take are players. We could do same if we raised cap and the likes of IL put his hand in his pocket. Yeah we would lose money but its up to owners to clear the debt and if we ever lose a wealthy a owner the club goes t*ts up just like saracens would if there owner walked away. If we are going to die as you all say we might as well go down fighting and yes there will be a gap between the top and the bottom clubs but there already is now so nothing will change. Look at there losses in this in 2009-2010 and nothing will have changed for them
The massive new TV rights deal RU has secured has obviously passed you buy. It's £38m a season for four seasons and the Premiership clubs are planning to increase their salary caps on receipt of their share of this money. How big their crowds are or how rich their owners are is just not an issue when that sort of cash comes flowing in. And that is before they secure any other sponsorship which you can bet won't be given away for free to Stobarts and before they get any central funds off the RFU.
They are not even attempting to fund their outgoings of gate receipts. If you think RU is in a bad state financially you are barking up the wring tree. We are the sport trying to run clubs on a £700K handout from Sky and then balancing the books by the clubs generating their own revenue. Just how much money do you think a team as big as Wigan can squeeze out of the fans never mind the likes of Wakey?
All this "I prefer the club to be self supporting financially" is a load of rubbish in this day and age for pro sport. In the past the odd sugar daddy like Dave Whelan could bank roll a club but now its well past that already in RU. Like soccer but on a smaller scale it is generating such a big income from outside revenue it's taking players wages to a new level.
Pro sport has become a very costly exercise where the costs way outweigh what monies clubs can generate in a traditional way. RU played BT Vision off against Sky to get a great TV deal in these so called times of Austerity. How far away is that from giving the sponsorship away for nothing?
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| The RU has signed the new deal for £38 million per season with BT? but how much were they getting from SKY and how much will that drop by in the new deal or will Sky not televise any of the RU games.
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