Ryan Hoffman leaving was not something that particularly bothers me really & I don't have any great desire to see him return to the UK. Not that he wasnt a good player. Quite the opposite he was a fantastic player but the cap space & quota he would take up coupled with the fact we have two players in Harrison Hansen & Gareth Hock who are up to (and in Hock's case possibly surpass) Hoffman's standards.

The player that I really do wish was back in the Cherry and White's was Joel Tomkins. A truly brilliant athlete. The best raw athlete that we've produced from our academy IMO. Joel was a fantastic player & could have developed into something special at Wigan alongside his brother Sam. The season he spent at centre perhaps has seen some fans views of how good he was become a bit misguided. Certainly Darrell Goulding is doing a tremendous job at centre and we're better off with him there than Joel but Joel was never a centre. In the back row/loose forward however he was brilliant. He had a rare combination of pace/acceleration/balance with strength/power & a brilliant fend. There was a spell when Sean O'Loughlin was out for a lengthy period of time which saw Joel replace him & he was outstanding (I think he won YPOTY in that season too).

Today I had a look back at that Wembley try that he scored - a moment that will live with me forever. That was something special. I would love for him to return to league. A back row combination of Gaz Hock/Harrison Hansen/Joel Tomkins with Sean O'Loughlin at loose forward would be something else.

Hock was the direct replacement for hoffman which has turned out great as far as i am concerned. Luaki, dudson, crosby and spencer have replaced coley and o'carroll and again that has turned out pretty well. I was a bit unsure how our new recruits and young lads would bed in to this side as there was nothing 'world class' about any of the new signings but i have got too say i am pretty happy with how all of them have performed.

Dare I say that Joel was possibly a better player than Hock?

As you said raw pace mixed with that Tomkins agility, power and handling means for me he has more attributes than Hock.

Both are fine players tho and for me Joel was our next 13 and skipper.

Joel was immense last season, and while we have not felt the loss as much as feared due to Goulding stepping up.

Who can forget his CC try, which won us the match and his try vs the exiles, neither of which Goulding would have scored.

I too saw him as the natural replacement for SOL, but who knows he may be back?

I certainty hope so.

How is Joel doing in yawnion? This may sound rough but I would hope not so brilliantly so that he might see the grass wasnt so greener maybe.

Of course, seeing his brother(s) lift trophys may help that cause as well.

Joel was far from being "immense" last season.

He was decent in an unfamiliar position and scored a couple of fantastic try's, but in no way he was "immense"

The thing people need to be careful of is getting carried away, this year and its signings are going better than anybody could imagine, this season we will lose Carmont, Tommy, Lima and in all likelihood Finch (and Roberts), without any question that presents a huge amount of problems for the management team and they really need to get our signings right, otherwise, we will quickly drop back into the back, we are losing 4 of the best players in SL this time.

Definitely. We don't need Joel back. Our back 3 is perfect as it is and Farrell/Hughes are good replacements.

scored on his debut and hardly played since...not even making the bench most of the time.
he must be either
1. rubbing his hands about getting paid for doing nothing
2. frustrated

my monies on 2

I thought Joel had pretty much accepted that he would spend what was left of the season playing for the second string side and playing a few games in the LV Cup. Wasn't it stated that he wanted to learn the game and his role first rather than being thrown right in like other converts have been?

so its option 1 ?

What people tend to forget when discussing topics like this is that, just because a player is a better player they don't necessarily make the team a better team. Hoffman is, without doubt, an excellent player but the team, especially the pack, are functioning at close to perfection at them moment. How much better could it get? To put Hoffman into the team you would have to take someone else out and, in my opinion, that could very well result in a nett loss. Who knows?

Excellent point, I was only thinking about Hoffman's leaving yesterday morning. No doubting Hoffmans talent, and there is equally no doubting the strength of this team. In 1966 Jack Charlton asked Alf Ramsey why he, Jack Charlton, was in the team. Ramsey said words to the effect of "i play to a system, and that does not mean i necessarily play the best players". Great psychology. Its a team game, very talented individuals help of course, but one man can't take on a team. IL should take great credit for the management team he has put together, thats where our strength lies at the moment.