Totally disagree it's exactly the same thing.

Are you honestly suggesting that the key difference is that they were "Amateur" in RU?

You are either grasping onto your argument, unwilling to back down or are extremely naive.

RU was never completely "amateur". It was all about the size of brown paper bags involved, even down to teams you would have never heard of. Those who moved to RL obviously decided that the bags were too small and they could earn more money in RL.

i.e. EXACTLY the same situation as those who move to RU today.

I was chatting to Steve Smith (ex England RU and co-founder of Cotton Traders), at a Wembley Challenge Final. I asked him why he'd never turned pro because he seemed to have all the attributes to make a success of League. His answer was simple: "I couldn't afford to".

Jonathan Davies's move to League was funded by Widnes's then main sponsor ICI, they viewed it as the cheapest national and international advertising they'd ever bought.

Quite apart from "boot money", there were other ways of remunerating Union players, often they worked for a club "patron" and received a handsome wage..

Thos who left The Valleys and "took the money" still had to find employment away from the rugby field, there was a RFL by-law that prevented full-time professionals

Didnt find a James Grant Management on our company software but found a James Grant Sports which has a director of Michael McGuire appointed on 01.01.2010.........

No I am saying going to play RL from RU was no different than someone going from an amateur RL side to play the game at the top level. I am also saying the RU players had no contracts to break and that they were not in any way contracted to their clubs - and they were not. This is so far removed from moving from one professional sports team (to which you are contracted) to another it is untrue. It is also no coincidence most of the players who went north came from Wales where there clearly wasn't enough brown paper bag money to allow them to earn a living at the sport.

I am sure just before RU went pro there was a lot of cash available under the table for players like Guscott in England but the games have been around a lot longer than that era and to suggest RU players have always been well paid or paid at all and none of them ever went north to simply earn a living from playing sport which was an option that was precluded form them back in RU is just simply untrue.

I don't blame the players for one minute. If a player is offered a 3x (or more) increase in salary then they are going to take it. The thing that annoys me is that Andy Clarke has been promoting league players to union for years. Andy was the reason that Chris Ashton moved to union.

Phil Clarke was a joint shareholder of the company that generated fees from Andy's activities (he is his brother afterall!!). Phil then appears on sky stating that the RFL have to do everything in their power to protect the sport and the talent that is developed by the clubs. B*****s Phil, your brother has been generating fees from doing the very thing that you are stating the RFL need to protect against.

At the end of the day money talks and the Clarke brothers (particularly Phil) should do the honourable thing and f**k right off.

Now that the firm has been acquired by James Grant my real concern is that the better UK based players will trot along to the kick and clap brigade.

The question is now how the RFL will respond.......

I won't hold my breath.

Rant over

1 rumor in the 70's was that the players for Wales got paid by adidas to wear their boots in games. During my time of playing union we were hearing stories of players getting paid backhanders to play. No such thing as ametur in union tbh. Difference was when it became a fully professional run game the organisation's became professional as well. RFL is amaeturish run by people in charge.

I'm not sure that Joel Tomkins will make it in rugby union. I don't think he is a back as he wasn'ty a great centre at Wigan. He certainly isn't a front row forward and the top class backrow forwards in RU are taller than Joel.
I think he will struggle at this alien game and he will return to rugby league in a couple of years as Smith of Leeds did. Not sure if Eastmond will make it either.
Our only hope is that all rugby league signing fail so the Union hierarchy will think twice before signing anyone else. I do think Sam would be outstanding on the dark side.

How do you suggest that the RFL should respond, given all relevant legislation on restraint of trade etc?

It is not up to the RFL to respond to any players being tempted away, that is totally within the remit of individual clubs. There have been suggestions of raising the cap - that would be fine if the majority of clubs were spending close to the cap. It would be even better if the clubs were providing enough income to cover paying their players AND investing in the future, without the need of any sugar-daddy benefactors.

Just remember, you haven't got a ground you can flog to Tesco anymore.

You don't know much about union do you? He'd easily be tall enough to be a back row forward, although I wouldn't expect him to plan on being a flanker or no8. He's a typical modern day union centre and has all the attributes to do so. His only negative point is that at centre his defensive footwork and positioning could occasionally be found out in league but this won't be exloited as much in union as far as I'm concerned.

I don't want him to go by any means, but I do think he's going to do quite well. I think Sam on the other hand, despite being the better league player, would struggle to adapt to union as there isn't any particular position that stands out in regards to his size and main qualities.

No I don't know much about union having been a pupil at John Rigby which only played union, then played union until I was 29 and had to quit because of injury. Joel is not a high calibre centre in either code. He will go okay but won't be worth £400k per year to Saracens.

There are plenty of things the RFL could do as opposed to the clubs. They could change the rules so players earnings from outside their club wages did not count on the cap. So players being sponsored, any advertising earnings they could get and now image rights are not a tax dodge the RFL could remove that from the salary cap calculation and let players earn money from that and so on. Basically the cap would be based on what the club paid the players not what the players earned so that would address your concern of clubs not being able to afford higher wages because they would not be paying them any more then they are now.

Former England captain Bill Beaumont got banned for life from the sport by the IRB because he wrote an autobiography including (obviously) his RU exploits and dared to earn money from the sales. (The ban was rescinded after they went pro in 1995 and he is now on the IRB himself). The idea RU was basically a pro sport in all but name pre-1995 is nuts.

Dave, Dave, Dave you really must think these things through. How would such a proposal help Wakefield et al?