I've got to admit though, at about 55 mins I was calling for tommy to be brought on.

So it was Micky Mc s fault for Hoffman dropping ball in our own 10 and for faz giving penalties and them scoring off it , and his fault for Ryan hall smashes us down the wings . The full team fell to bits through gifting possession and try's ,last 2 or 3 games no one has said anything about him but then this game we have another 15 page thread. Is this gonna happen all season every other game .The same old Micky mc is crap thread.

Tommy was stand out from EVERY player yesterday not just Micky and some times I think Madge leaves him off too long but then again would tommy have the same impact if he didn't have such along time rested .

When tommy goes off we lose a lot of forward momentum. Micky just doesnt have the same skill to lead us up the pitch. Imagine if we were bringing the pig on instead of micky? We would not lose our momentum if that was the case imo. Its happened too often now for it to be coincidence.

Nothing wrong with MM imo. He gives us something different from the bench. I've always said TL is a 9 not a 7 and stick with that, he is a great player there, but MM does a job from the bench for us.

Get him in the second row and bring a proper hooker in! He has a good player - he is just NOT a good hooker.

I don't buy into McIllorum not being good enough for Wigan but Tommy is a world class player and I feel he should be on the field for the full 80 in some capacity.

Spot on post. Wigan lose alot when Tommy L leaves the field. Wigan blow teams away for the first twenty, Micky Mac comes on then the other team get's back into the game, Tommy L returns and Wigan pull away.

This.
Good player - Just in the wrong position.
Whatever the cause, our structure definitely seems to wobble significantly when Tommy L goes off.
Then he comes back on, and we seem to up the intensity by a factor of 3 again. (and lets not forget his massive 'Lammy style' defensive hits!)
Personally, i wouldnt simply point a finger at the Mickey Mac 'factor'.
Its more about the creativity we lose when LuLu goes off, for me.
And just how relieved were all of us when Madge put him back on yesterday???

I've backed Micky Mac in the past but have always thought Tommy isnt playing enough minutes. He probably did around 50 minutes or so yesterday but i'm sure he's capable of playing at least 65-70 mins and we're under using him and that really needs to be looked at.

As for Micky Mac i'd still have him in my 17. He's as tough as they come and hurts people in defence. He does make ground forward but just isn't in Tommy's class. I'd be happy to see him used in the backrow abit more tbh and it's a position i've thought he could excel in for a while.

THE McILLORUM COINCIDENCE could be the title of Robert Ludlum's next bestseller.

Thing is, we're pretty much awash with backrowers, even with Hoffman going - so where would he get a shout here? Tend to agree that the problem is Tommy going off - he'd be missed whoever came on for him. Been one of our most consistent players for years now, and for me it gives other teams a lift when we take a player of his calibre off.

He has nothing to his game that would improve our backrow.

Did you hear the speech by IL at the home coming today? Said why he wasn't on sooner and explained the reasons behind the subs and the times in the second half.

booooooring...

out of interest what were the reasons given for keeping TL off for so long?