We are missing Piggy big time!!

I don't think Joel at centre is a good idea. We need him back in the back row and back to his best. Whilst he may be a good tackler and solid defensively, the thread on here mentioning average players is spot one with Hansen. He offers absolutely nothing in attack. He rarely takes the ball up so rarely makes any metres. He doesn't pass the ball well and he seems to be completely incapable of offloading or even stretching the defence. He also isn't a difficult player to put down because he doesn't run the ball with any aggression.
Joel needs to get back to his best so he can stretch the defence and create opportunities and just generally cause problems down the right in the way that Hoffman is doing down the left hand side. Forget 'earning your place in the side', tonight our players looked jaded and unenthusiastic and Joel should go straight into the starting line up. He should be fresh after two games out and he should be determined to make up for his mistakes. If we don't have any real threat down the right then teams are going to find it so easy to defend against us and we're going to start forcing plays and coming up with stupid errors.

I have not read that thread but if it pings Hansen as average its clueless. He has already had some very good games for us this season and scored 3 tries! I guess the defence wasn't stretched at all for those. His stats are actually better than Joel's so far in most categories in 2011 if you look in the engage web site.

I am a big fan of both players and I will bet you Hansen will get picked whenever he is fit this season.

He had little to do with the ball or in defence and like I say I don't want this thread to sound as though it's all about slating the lad because it's not. He's doing a solid job but i'm not quite sure he's ready to be starting every game and I couldn't find him a place in our best 17 at the moment in all honesty.

I think the way i'd prefare this thread to go would be to talk about how we need Amos Roberts qualities in the side at the minute. He looked our most dangerous back when he came on and this side really needs a broken field runner like Roberts in it. I'd have to find him a place somewhere.

I really do think Marsh is slowly but steadily improving.

His three tries came from competing for a kick against Saints (which came from a lucky bounce that fooled Wellens), a spot of luck against Bradford when Chev Walker spilled a kick and then simply had to run for the line for his try against Salford after Leuluai did all the hard work. They aren't exactly examples of his good attacking play.

Hansen does beat Joel in terms of tackles stats, fewer errors and fewer penalties but not really anything else. He still doesn't make many metres. If Hansen has put in a good stint tonight then I'll hold my hands up and admit that I might be wrong but I don't remember seeing much of him. Joel has been off form so far this year but showed signs of improvement against Hull and hopefully if he can get back to what he was like at his best then there is no comparison between him and Hansen.

From what I've seen of Hansen in the last few years I just think he offers absolutely nothing in attack. He's the epitome of what is wrong with so many forwards in this country. He is a good all round athlete with a good physique and fitness but his skills are seriously limited.
His defence is good and he makes loads of tackles in a game, but Farrell is capable of making more and offers and attacking threat, Joel can make a high number of tackles but still pose an attacking threat, Hoffman can make a high number of tackles and still pose an attacking threat, O'Loughlin...blah blah etc etc.
Hansen just never seems to impress me and is a brilliant defender and a poor attacking player which to me makes him pretty average for a top side.

So why does he get picked? I don't want to use "the coach is always right argument", I'd much rather have a discussion, but I think I can see why Madge keeps picking him. His work rate is at the top of pile in defence and for me I have no worries when he is on the pitch. I think he is very under rated.

He gets picked because his defence is sound. I'll never start arguing that Hansen's defence isn't good because it's outstanding and the team is built around having a strong defence. It doesn't mean that you can't do better though. Perhaps I'm just too much a fan of skilled players in the back row and like to see offloads and passing plays and such things. I like what Joel brings to the side because last season he made several tries for us down that right hand side. For me Hansen just doesn't have that attacking ability that would make him a first choice in the back row. I think he has his uses as a player who could be brought off the bench to steady the side or start a game to get off to set out a solid defence early on but I wouldn't like to have him in the side playing 80 minutes because I just don't think he offers enough.

I do think Joel makes more breaks and is a more threat on attack and I'd expect him to be more of the "star player" type but with our current squad I think Hansen will always make the 1st 17 if fit. I think he will make it not because he has an awesome offload or whatever but because Madge plays the percentage game and Hansen fits into that kind of game plan to a tee.

That's a good point, but I do think that we would be much stronger (once everyone is fit) with a bench that consists of two props, one back row and either a hooker or a halfback (perhaps even an outside back depending on the side) and I think if O'Loughlin, Hoffman and Joel were to be our starting back row then I would choose Farrell over Hansen on the bench because he has the work rate in defence as well as the attacking ability.
I also think if we can get Joel playing well down that right hand side we might see a little bit more from Stefan Marsh, as Joel is good at creating space and that's something that Marsh might be able to exploit quite well. Our defence has been doing quite well this season on the whole, it's our attack that has been letting us down and I think we need more players that can cause a threat.

Charnley and Marsh are still learning..............Senior and Hall will take them apart next week imo............rest them.
stick Joel at centre, Amos on the wing, .........giving
1. sam
2. amos
3.carmont
4. joel
5 goulding
6 lockers
7 tommy.....and leave finch on the bench...............let him spell tommy and ffs give micky mac a rest.
we are too 1 dimentional without an interchange hooker.........we need tommy to switch mid game

Agree with a lot of this.

It's easy to point the finger on the back of a defeat, but the signs have been there all season. Offensively we've been poor, we didn't replace piggy - big mistake, and we persist in shuffling the half backs and hooking roles throughout the games.. How can we develop consistent attacking moves when we play musical chairs in these areas?

In addition let's be onest Tommy Lulu is not a 7. He's had one good game this Season - Salford , and has gone missing ever since. This guy doesn't know what his best position is - it's no wonder the coaches can't work him out either. If madge practices what he preaches this guy needs a stint in the U20s!

I agree, a few matches in and his defence is pretty much there, tonight he was beginning to look slightly more dangerous with the ball. However, he appears to me to be a bit positionless - he clearly isn't a centre as he doesn't pass, I'm not sure about the idea of him on the wing... I woudn't know what to do with him. Although he is getting better each week (marginally), I can't help but feel we need better, quicker.

I'd go with this. Fact of the matter is, I wouldn't move Sam to 6 as some have suggested because in the long run this season he's going to play at 1. Simple as that, so no point shifting him about.

Roberts looked sharp and industrious for me when he came on last night, and he could do with building some confidence down the wing before Pat comes back in. Finch and Leuluai are going to be our main halfback pairing, with Tommy no doubt moving to 9 throughout the game, so they need games together.

And, as it stands, Charnley is going to eventually play centre for Wigan for a long time I reckon, so might as well give him the games he need there. I think his style of running better fits the centre position anyway; he looks like he prefers to run further inside around defenders than other wingers do, so for that reason I can see him being a more effective centre. But we all knew that anyway.

Although Marsh is getting better defensively he is still very poor in attack and I see zero improvement there. He is far too lightweight for a centre and this means he offers no threat at all in attack and also means he struggles in defence close to his line against bigger players. His biggest problem though is that I have yet to see him pass the ball to his winger and he even try give the defence the impression that he is going to. Therefore when he is at centre our right hand attack is totally non existant.