Mossop. McIlorum and Ainscough to be in the starting 17 next season - don't care who misses out. Farrell to get some game time this season and come through next.

I agree.

Annoyed that Flanagan seems to be off to Australia - he was one of the few Wigan players yesterday who looked to take the defensive line on and try and do something with ball in hand.

Outside of Lulu's kicks and Tomkin's runs we're lacking creativity, Flanagan gives us options outwide with regards to runners and taking opposition defenders out of the game and creating overlaps. Disappointed to hear he's off to Australia - could do with someone like him at 13 or 6 rather than O'Loughlin (who's a SR - no creativity at all) and we're making do with a hooker at 7.

Lost did we?

We lost yesterday because Smith's tactics were far superior to that of Noble's. For the opening ten minutes I thought Wigan started the game well and we took an 8-0 advantage but then when the Wire got possession we started to unravel.

Every ball taken in by the forwards saw them twist in the tackle and offload the ball helping Wire make a few more yards and then play the quick PTB which threw our defence into complete disarray. Ganson for me was pretty lenient with slowing the play the ball down but we didn't utilise it (Perhaps Noble had warned them pre-match about the side's penalty count & discipline so we didn't hold down long enough.) and Warrington just steamrollered us. By the time Wigan got into the game it was too late.

We needed some leadership on the field and some level heads to calm the players down, put together a game plan and nullify the speed of Warrington's attack and block the ball carrying arm more effectively, but we didn't and thus we lost. We need some leaders on and off the pitch to take us to the next level.

I hear that Atkins is a done deal to Warrington, so he isn't a possibility.

If true and they get Myler, somethings being broken.

Both are going to Wire and Johnson to Wakey

That lad is a good prospect,,,,now here comes the question,,,,,,,Why is he going to Oz,,,,Not from the heartland so just asking....

Its now a certainity that Noble won't be here beyond 2010 at the latest so there will be change in the coaching department. That will bring new impetus and new ideas - hopefully the quality of coach will ensure that the new ideas will be good ones.

On the field the three main problems are obvious. Fielden's finished, Feka's too fat and the issue of Leuluai as a scrumhalf.

We at least have the option of addressing the situation regarding those first two players come next season's end. We must make a decision as to whether we believe Tomkins/Leuluai is good enough as a long term partnership. Like it or not, I believe we'll have a full season next year to assess that.

Other than that, I don't think the problems at Wigan are huge. Lenagan's philosophy may end up bearing fruit in a year or two as long as he does make the odd experienced signing or two to go with the kids. A shame that according to Webb's agent his visa doesn't look like arriving for 2010 but there's no point rushing to sign someone else who isn't the same quality. I do agree with Lenagan - overseas signings should be few and of the right standard.

Remember this is the same side who has impressed most supporters by doing very well in our last 6 games prior to the semi. We got outplayed in a number of key areas on the day yesterday and lost the match. Fair play to them. You don't cry about it - you take it on the chin and go again.

And of course it's really that easy isn't it, choose the coach you want, snap your fingers and bingo.

Just like signing the props you want under the cap, whilst still paying two big contracts for existing props.

For pity's sake, just let it play out and see where we are in the future.

And yes, i know everybody has waited a long time (but a lot of us waited far far far longer than this in the past before 1984/85), just stick with it, support our club, and trust me the success is all the sweeter when it arrives.

I don't know what this means.

How long do you want it to 'play out' for? Years? Decades?

I'm pretty sure the club's top brass don't see it that way. More than any previous owners, they've shown that they liken running Wigan RL to running a business. They know that if we continue to fail to deliver the goods, the support and all its positive offshoots will eventually dwindle, and that could be disastrous. You can't compare the SL era to the 1970s, when everyone was content to chug along at a snail's pace, running their operations on a shoestring budget with almost no ambition to improve. Stagnate now and you die.

Anyway, no-one's said that it would be simple or that we should snap our fingers and it'll all go away. What they're saying is that now Noble's come to the end of his contract (and he's had three whole years to make his mark), they're hopeful that IL and co have been looking at new and better coaching options. It's not simple, but it's clearly got to be done, or at least attempted.

Adopting your 'Hail Mary' model sounds like suicide. It's patently obvious, for all kinds of reasons, that we're still way below the level we need to be at. You can be as patient as you like, but that won't sort itself out on its own.

No cruncher, i'm acutely aware that in the cap era you have to let things 'expire'

Honestly what would you rather do, sign a player or coach now for 2010 as a stop gap, when you could get your preferred target in 2011.

We have two of the biggest perceived problem contracts expiring at the end of next season, for the positions where we need strengthening the most. Sign now and regret later, or tough it out and get the player(s) we want?

Same with the coaching situation

All i'm trying to say is unlike some posters on here, I don't think IL is clueless (you don't make the money the guy has by being that) and I trust he's doing everything he can to make changes to take the club forward for the future - it's just not always to every fans timescale.

IF we've got a really good coach lined up for 2011, I'd be happy to wait until then. I've said the same thing on other threads. But that's the only reason I can think why we should give Nobby another contract.

Signing players is different. I'm well aware that we have big problems re. existing salaries, though they must be a lot smaller now than when IL first took over. My view on the playing front is that we already have a pretty good team. I'm pleased to see youngsters being allowed to develop (at last). If we can get the odd world-class star in, all well and good. I don't expect that we'll do this often, or even feel that we've got a right to do this often. But here's the rub - the Wigan team as it is should be a lot more effective. It isn't being coached to the standard that other teams in SL currently are, and I'm not just talking about Saints and Leeds. Look at Huddersfield, Hull KR. Even Warrington look to be turning a corner now they've got a good man at the helm.

We so need a modern coach, who can bring the best out of this team.

I'm not talking about overnight fixes or one-season wonders. I'm expressing hope that IL has sounded out a new coach and that - now the Cup is out of the way - his arrival, and therefore a new era at Wigan - will be announced as soon as possible. Any way you look at it, surely that's a better option than just waiting to see if Nobby can eventually get it right?