If we go to Penrith, the crowd will tell a tale as to how much interest their fans feeling actual jeopardy helps. Even if their team didn’t treat it as a friendly (and they did to a point), their fans certainly seemed to. The ground had been pretty much full for every Penrith game for ages, yet it was a poor crowd. I think that will change on the back of the Saints defeat.

Mike Danson will be wanting the match to be played where the club gain the most revenue and exposure, for me that means utilising another big crowd at the DW Stadium (surely it won't be long till that name is changed).

A 20k+ crowd at the beginning of the season gives us the best chance of a win, it also puts £££ into the stadium coffers and Robin Park fanzone pre and post match.

For purely selfish reasons, I've got everything crossed that it's in Australia. My old man isn't getting any younger and we've said that we'll both head out if it's over there.

On the playing side, it's also nice to see us going against different teams - especially if we go down the preseason friendly route Saints did.

I've seen League Freak on Twitter suggesting we play the game during their magic weekend. That would be a massive disruption, but would be more of a test Vs the start of the year.

On a side note, we've got two Penrith juniors in our 2024 side with Ellis and Keighran. I'm expecting a massive game from Ellis night night, regardless of where it's played.

That’s not selfish mate.

Seconded. The tales those occasions tell are everything and people will have different reasons for wanting to see the game in Wigan, Vegas or Penrith. I’m nailed on for Wigan, half a sniff for Vegas and no chance in Oz but what will be will be. All I’d urge people to do is go if you can, wherever it may be. Life is too short to say no to 50/50’s.

Spot-on. When you give it you have got to be willing to take it. We shall have to wait and see how that pans out going forward

The Smithies/Knowles debate continues on Redvee, this is the view of one eminent poster:

'I think the Wigoons were bigging him up at one point as the next SOL no 13 when in reality he is not smart enough or creative enough for that postion. As you say he's not fast enough for second row and too small for Prop. I had a heated debate last year on the RL Fans of Smithies v Knowles as they predicted he would be much better than Knowles by the end of this season gone and would an automatic England international player. Knowles is a defensive loose foward as well but is also an attacking threat, can play anywhere in the pack ... '

So let us look at some facts:

Too small for a prop - many on Redvee are saying that Knowles (who I like by the way - I am not totally biased against our biggest rivals, unlike some of the morons on Redvee), could play prop for them next season. Knowles is 1.8m tall and 96kg in weight, Smithies is 1.85m and 106kg.

Match stats 2023 - Tries per game (S) 0.04, (K) 0; Try assists per game (S) 0.04, (K) 0.05 Average gain (S) 6.12m, (K) 6.07; Average clean breaks per game (S) 0.04, (K) 0.11; Average tackles per game (S) 37.38, (K) 26.58; Marker tackles per game (S) 9.5, (K) 6.21; Tackle busts per game (S) 0.81, (K) 0.84; Metres gained per game (S) 77.19, (K) 69; Carries per game (S) 12.62, (K) 11.37; Penalties per game (S) 0.23, (K) 0.32; Errors per game (S) 0.23, (K) 0.32; Average number of missed tackles per game (S) 1.77, (K) 2.

I'll let you decide from the facts provided (rather than anti-Wigan bile), who the best player is, whether either is big enough to play prop, and whether one is a more creative and a more attacking threat than the other. By the way, one thing I do agree with is that Smithies is no Lockers. Finally, the Australians must see something in Morgan that our friend doesn't

I await our friend's response given that he has debated previously.

Not sure how accurate those height and weight stats are given as only yesterday- Wane (who can do no wrong in the eyes of Wigan fans)- actually said that Smithies wasn't as big as Knowles?

Also Zig if you are going to quote stats it would be useful to see average mins per game played, total number of games played etc.

Ironic though that Wane chose Knowles over Smithies for England. Its only now that Knowles is injured that Smithies has been called up.

Makes you think doesn't it.

Mean does help if Knowles was on the field. Lad can’t stop being banned the dirty get

Probably left out due to Knowles' issues with his discipline

It’s very close between Knowles and Smithies for me. I think Smithies had the better season but Knowles has had better seasons than Smithies 2023 level in years gone by. I do think there’s potential Smithies goes past Knowles in the coming years as he’s younger and is going to test himself in a better comp. I think Knowles should have already looked to test himself in the NRL and if the opportunity comes up again, he should go. I do think he’s gone a bit stale at Saints and he lost his way a bit in 2023. You could make a strong case to say he’s not the best loose forward at Saints tbh.

Personally, I think Knowles is a fine player and is, at this stage, a better player than Smithies.

I just dont think he belongs on the pedestal that most Saints fans put him on

I think thats a fair assessment. Smithies is a few years younger so may well end up becoming the better player I agree.

Its just ironic that Wigan fans keep saying Smithies is the better player yet Mr Wigan himself- Wane selects Knowles over Smithies so its a strange argument to have when you look at the facts.

Re the NRL point it was known that Knowles was severely tempted but had a baby boy at the time of the interest and said that it was bad timing and he needed his family around him.

I also agree that he wasn't the best LF at Saints last season. Bell was magnificent and gave us more in attack when he played there (and yes I know how God awful our attack was but you take my point)

He also definitely needs to be smarter with his discipline which to be fair he did seem to sort at the back end of the season.

Smithies was still on the ale in Dublin just prior to the 1st test match.

The Saints players played in the WC last year after the GF

I'm pretty sure if Smithies knew he was being selected he'd have stayed at home.